Ladakh Flash Point

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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
They didn’t do this the other way around when things were tense in 2019?

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... made up of seven defensive "holding corps" of the Indian Army and deployed near the Pakistani border. Possessing limited offensive power, the holding corps' primary responsibility was to check a Pakistani advance.
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India's offensive potency was derived from the "strike corps", which were made up of a mechanised infantry and extensive artillery support. "Unlike the holding corps that was deployed close to the border", argues Walter Ladwig of the University of Oxford, "the strike corps was based in central India, a significant distance from the international border. In a war, after the holding corps halted a Pakistani attack, the strike corps would counterattack, penetrating deep into Pakistani territory to destroy the Pakistan Army's own strike corps through 'deep sledgehammer blows' in a high-intensity battle of attrition".


This is the "cold start" doctrine of India that has "holding corps" and "strike corps". The wiki says , Cold Start doctrine itself maybe a flawed and ineffectual one for real war applications but must have been employed as part of propaganda and deterrent. It is reasonable to assume that even though the doctrine as a whole may not be existing, the fundamental concept of using a defensive force up front to soften the blow and using an offensive mechanized "strike corps" to advance for a quick change in outcomes of a local battle may be in employment with the Indian Army. (every army must have an offensive part to a doctrine somewhere)

Primarily made to threaten Pakistan, India may be dividing some of that Pakistan oriented offensive force ( that usually stays back during the start of war) to also be employed for a Ladakh border war with China. But it is only reasonable to judge that the strike corps, troop acclimatization program to the Ladakh climate excluded, will not all be ready near/medium term owing to most of its equipment being not fit for a mountain warfare.

They'd need light tanks, APCs, towed howitzers, Air cover and ofcourse Ammunitions for mountain warfare.
 
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tallgamer

New Member
Registered Member
Happy to see people from India participating in this forum. Hopefully you are a normal guy, unlike the usual Jai Hind crowd we usually get


Good


Tibetans are really returning back to Tibet. Nobody is lying to you on this matter. If you check the statistics Tibet's GDP has grown 3x from 2010 to 2019. This is huge improvement and naturally Tibetans who left are now coming back
View attachment 75057



Honestly, we are all just making assumptions. Nobody knows why the visit was relatively a bit more quiet than visits on other provinces. Unless you or anyone else is in the Politburo then we are just talking out of air. I personally think that it was deliberately a bit more secret due to various of reasons, the flooding, the US/India tensions and maybe for a couple other reasons.

However I heavily doubt that personal safety/protection played a big role on this.



Ok I will bite. Very simple, your genious of leader with his Kashmir announcement broke strategic trust between India + Pakistan/China.

That you (I mean your country) then attacked, ambushed and killed Chinese soldiers trying to take advantage of the percieved weakness of China at that moment (during trade war, covid in China, things were looking pretty bad for it then) was a blatant provocation and a big strategic turn from the usual Indian' diplomacy.

Ofc China is not a muppet, so it immediately counterattacked and gained a sizeable portion of India's claimed land. Since then China has agreed to withdraw on some areas after India agreed on certain conditions.

However make no mistake, China will not withdraw from its current gains unless India offers something valuable in return instead of its usual talk



I answered above, but I understand why they are ignoring it. Almost every week we have Indians joining and asking the same questions, baiting other members and trolling.



Believe it or not, I would say that half (yes, half), of all posts on this thread had something to do with Indian members coming here, and trolling the thread
Complete nonsense. Even on a anonymous forum you guys are conditioned to lie through your teeth.
The rearrangement of jk state into union territory effects china in no way. The autonomous powers given to jk were done internally by India long before china was ever involved. It was a arrangement between the Indian state and jk after Pakistan tried to militarily occupy jk in 1947.
To present this as justification for the incursions is just dishonesty.
China shoved a large number of troops into no mans land and India was as usual reacting.
And atleast you admitted you have no idea why the Chinese boss has to quietly skunk into a happy and prosperous province... But everyone else is quite aware.
The GDP numbers are reflective of the uncontrolled migration of han Chinese into tibet.

And i have read a lot of the thread. Very few non Chinese here.
The fact is this thread depends on input from the independent Indian media.
Because you aren't getting any explanations from the communist government. Whether on ladakh or xi's visit.
 

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
Here's my two cents on why the Indian gov. made a big deal out of the '62 war and why it's such a pain body for so many indians today: they needed to portray it as a humiliating stab in the back defeat to knit the country together else wise they were going to be balkanised and divided as a young republic which had never really been formed together cohesively before.

There's no logical reason for indians to want to go to war with China but plenty of reasons why an indian elite who are buddy buddy with their pals in america and the UK would want to get their lower caste compatriots (who they don't give a crap about anyway) to fight and die in a war that will serve no-one but white anglo Atlanticists.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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... made up of seven defensive "holding corps" of the Indian Army and deployed near the Pakistani border. Possessing limited offensive power, the holding corps' primary responsibility was to check a Pakistani advance.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
India's offensive potency was derived from the "strike corps", which were made up of a mechanised infantry and extensive artillery support. "Unlike the holding corps that was deployed close to the border", argues Walter Ladwig of the University of Oxford, "the strike corps was based in central India, a significant distance from the international border. In a war, after the holding corps halted a Pakistani attack, the strike corps would counterattack, penetrating deep into Pakistani territory to destroy the Pakistan Army's own strike corps through 'deep sledgehammer blows' in a high-intensity battle of attrition".


This is the "cold start" doctrine of India that has "holding corps" and "strike corps". The wiki says , Cold Start doctrine itself maybe a flawed and ineffectual one for real war applications but must have been employed as part of propaganda and deterrent. It is reasonable to assume that even though the doctrine as a whole may not be existing, the fundamental concept of using a defensive force up front to soften the blow and using an offensive mechanized "strike corps" to advance for a quick change in outcomes of a local battle may be in employment with the Indian Army. (every army must have an offensive part to a doctrine somewhere)

Primarily made to threaten Pakistan, India may be dividing some of that Pakistan oriented offensive force ( that usually stays back during the start of war) to also be employed for a Ladakh border war with China. But it is only reasonable to judge that the strike corps, troop acclimatization program to the Ladakh climate excluded, will not all be ready near/medium term owing to most of its equipment being not fit for a mountain warfare.

They'd need light tanks, APCs, towed howitzers, Air cover and ofcourse Ammunitions for mountain warfare.

More like oxygen concentrators and non-imported jackets/winter gear that don’t cost an arm and a leg.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
ALL (100%) Tibetan villages have been electrified - meaning they can installed TVs, computers, modern lightings and electric heaters in their homes. Many who lived in huts were moved to modern apartments. They have free education and affordable healthcare. Modern greenhouses were erected to provide vegetables all year round. The thriving tourism industry was created to provide high incomes. There's even a Tibetan woman helicopter pilot who flies tourists on sightseeing tours.
There's no way Tibet will fall to India, all India can provide is poverty.

Wow. Guys. While I sleep, you guys were having fun with some poster from India.

Please allow me to add my tuppence worth. First above highlighted text.

I remember the BBC doing a sxxt story on how China is moving people from their tradition of working in the land and living in sxxt tents with no education is against their human rights! You just can't make this sxxt up.
Don't know why this is being used to big up India, same thing happens with almost everyother refugee in the world (especially in devoloping world where "selling" is part of informal economy- few avenues to earn income formally)

This Indian poster obviously haven't seen the poor refugees the world over doing exactly this. Selling to tourists for pittance. Yet this poster seem to think this is meaningful and useful work to support their families. Gee the poster ought to get out and see life more.

Can you even grow cotton at that altitude?

I think @SampanViking is being flippant.

And i am to believe the Chinese here that Tibet is so peaceful that the premiers visit has to be kept under wraps ?

If you're going to troll, at least give us the courtesy of naming our leaders title correctly. For your information, our premiers is Li. Not Xi.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean well, but these kinds of posts won't be taken very positively. If you wish to participate in this thread, I would reccommend simply posting relavent news.

Well done. Credit where credit is due. That's the best post you've made here to date. Thanks

Are you looking for pats from them ? I am not. I am a Indian on a Chinese forum and will present my viewpoints without being personal or derogatory.
I was just replying to the Chinese guys claiming that tibetans were happily returning to Tibet and preferred the communist regime. Now they are claiming the head of the regime has to be protected from protests from tibetans , so the secrecy.
What i wanted from this forum was the Chinese view why they diverted a sizable force into no mans land and precipitated the crisis. But they are totally ignoring the question.
Even a arrogant but frank admission that xi wants to stamp his mark on Chinese history would be welcome. So the incursions. Why not be frank on a anonymous site ? Not as if the thought police will arrest you.
Its funny when someone says we dont think about India much, on a forum where the ladakh thread seems to be the longest. And populated by Chinese comments. Haha.

The highlighted text just showed up your bias and your real hidden agenda.

Lol what the hell are you talking about. He’s saying that the visit wasn’t even a secret due to the number of civilians making arrangements yet the opposition was caught unaware. You are the only one here making nonsensical suggestions.

@Sleepyjam you do know our friend have comprehension issue again! Lol

Edit

@tallgamer

"The GDP numbers are reflective of the uncontrolled migration of han Chinese into tibet."

This is just economic ignorant on your part. So you explained how GDP increases through "immigration". But how do you explained GDP part capita increase....... through "immigration".

If my economic student answer like that, I would give them an F for fail.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
They don't want to go to the country that wants to take care of them. They prefer going to usa.

Well, if we take a look at the H1-B visa breakdown then it is obvious that they aren't the only ones from India who wants to go USA.

What's this you're talking about? The Chinese premier didn't tell everyone where he was going in a timely manner? LOL What's with the microscope? You have India: aircraft carrier on fire, submarine underwater with the hatch open, Mars lander upside down, shoots down its own chopper by mistake, soldiers running to thier deaths in frozen steams the second a fight starts, farmer protests paralyzing the capital, economy in recession, so many COVID deaths they broke the numbering system with corpses being BBQd in piles on the street and you're worried about why the Chinese premier's itinerary wasn't updated to the public in realtime?

Minor correction here. It was a Lunar Lander. Mars lander is probably anywhere between 25 to 50 years away if I'm being generous.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Here's my two cents on why the Indian gov. made a big deal out of the '62 war and why it's such a pain body for so many indians today: they needed to portray it as a humiliating stab in the back defeat to knit the country together else wise they were going to be balkanised and divided as a young republic which had never really been formed together cohesively before.

There's no logical reason for indians to want to go to war with China but plenty of reasons why an indian elite who are buddy buddy with their pals in america and the UK would want to get their lower caste compatriots (who they don't give a crap about anyway) to fight and die in a war that will serve no-one but white anglo Atlanticists.
@DarkStar bro if your founding father (Nehru) LIED to you, then history had been retold to suit his agenda. Its a crime for them to accept his mistake. Now they will argue the same with Mao, which is correct in certain degree but we know and acknowledge his mistake which forces us to reform, to reflect and to correct, without self criticism we can't move forward. That is what the Indians needed a self reflection otherwise they will dwell on the past claiming victimhood which they are not.
 
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