Ladakh Flash Point


Mt1701d

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well u started provocation first by occupying our territory and attacking our patrol party.
Well technically that’s not true... I think Indians always forget that provocation isn’t just physical, considering all the provocation India has made throughout the last 5 years (but India always forget their own action and consider whatever actions as righteous, learning from America no doubt), also it was Indian unilateral action of changing the status quo first, by changing disputed territory into your own by simple declaration.

That’s what India does with its other neighbours simply declare and others have to accept. Diplomatic protest from China didn’t work, so physical action was the next step. The only difference with India’s other neighbours is China was willing to force the issue. There is really no right or wrong in these issues... it’s a matter of perceptive, interests and what countries are willing to do or how far they are willing to go.
 

chain smoker

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Well technically that’s not true... I think Indians always forget that provocation isn’t just physical, considering all the provocation India has made throughout the last 5 years (but India always forget their own action and consider whatever actions as righteous, learning from America no doubt), also it was Indian unilateral action of changing the status quo first, by changing disputed territory into your own by simple declaration.

That’s what India does with its other neighbours simply declare and others have to accept. Diplomatic protest from China didn’t work, so physical action was the next step. The only difference with India’s other neighbours is China was willing to force the issue. There is really no right or wrong in these issues... it’s a matter of perceptive, interests and what countries are willing to do or how far they are willing to go.
which disputed territory?
 

Mt1701d

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which disputed territory?
Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh, before you go and claim that, that’s Indian territory... I remind you that the area rightfully or wrongly is claimed by other countries as well and is currently under the status of disputed territory. It doesn’t matter what India alone thinks or believes, the whole point of disputed territory is that there is a dispute between multiple parties for the territory where each party believes the territory to be theirs. So the Indian point of view alone is irrelevant.

For China the specific area should be Akasi Chin and other minor area in Ladakh, which the Indian unilaterally included into there union territory, thus changing the status, according to India at least, of the territory in question from a disputed territory into Indian territory without any agreement with the disputed party in this case China.

We can go on and on about how this is Indian territory or Chinese territory... etc, but all of this is irrelevant. The important thing is what is happening on the ground and what will be agreed to moving forward.
 

Mt1701d

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akasi chin is already under your control .This standoff is not about territory so stop spinning it in other way for justifying your occupation.
Yes Akasi Chin is under Chinese control, but I am not spinning here, the problem is this:

Ladakh Union Territory Map: Govt releases maps of UTs of JK, Ladakh; Map of India depicting new UTs
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The Indian side decided to include it into their official territory without disclaiming disputed status, thus changing the status quo.

I actually agree with you that there is a bigger objective in play here but it was India that gave the Chinese an excuse and impetus to move and the Chinese moved. As I said before, there is no right or wrong in these disputes, it’s a matter of perspective, interests and the will and limits of actions. India made the first move here, allowing China to response, you can’t just up and cry foul after you made the first move.
 

Mohsin77

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Registered Member
well u started provocation first by occupying our territory and attacking our patrol party.
Dude, read all the articles/videos that have been posted here. They are sourced from your own analysts and diplomats, who all agree that it was India who provoked China, not the other way around.

You're not contributing to the discussion if you're not engaging with the opposition's arguments.
 

Dolcevita

Senior Member
Yes Akasi Chin is under Chinese control, but I am not spinning here, the problem is this:

Ladakh Union Territory Map: Govt releases maps of UTs of JK, Ladakh; Map of India depicting new UTs
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The Indian side decided to include it into their official territory without disclaiming disputed status, thus changing the status quo.

I actually agree with you that there is a bigger objective in play here but it was India that gave the Chinese an excuse and impetus to move and the Chinese moved. As I said before, there is no right or wrong in these disputes, it’s a matter of perspective, interests and the will and limits of actions. India made the first move here, allowing China to response, you can’t just up and cry foul after you made the first move.
Provocation started through the revocation of Article 370 of Indian Constitution and enactment of "Jammu and Kashmir Reorganization Act, 2019", hereby violating Chinese territory and undermine China's territorial sovereignty.

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ougoah

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Provocation started through the revocation of Article 370 of Indian Constitution and enactment of "Jammu and Kashmir Reorganization Act, 2019", hereby violating Chinese territory and undermine China's territorial sovereignty.

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This has been presented by various respectable Indian figures as the main driving force behind China's recent moves. Is it truly China incurring and simply sitting on disputed territories while both nations are obviously in talks? Since the talk are certainly happening, I suspect the discussion is about these changes to Indian constitution. So would this mean an Indian reversal of these changes would result in a return to previous positions? Can't figure out why China's doing this unless it's been asked by Pakistan or feeling some threat from the Indians which we haven't been seeing. The changes to the Indian Constitution do not have any impact on China as far as I'm aware, but the obviously do for Pakistan.
 

Mohsin77

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Can't figure out why China's doing this unless it's been asked by Pakistan or feeling some threat from the Indians which we haven't been seeing. The changes to the Indian Constitution do not have any impact on China as far as I'm aware, but the obviously do for Pakistan.
It's not because of Pakistan. Praveen Sawhney explained it in one of his recent videos. He put it very simply: When India joined the "quad" and decided to lead the charge in "containing" China, it crossed a red line. Basically, India has raised itself from being a tactical threat to a strategic one.

This is why China is demanding something in these "talks" which it knows India won't agree to. China has no intention of retreating from these hills, because now it can cut off India from supplying its northern sector. This move is countering India's open threat to China's CPEC project, which is also tied to strategic supply lines. China has locked in its position on the ground now, because India has made its hostile intentions clear.

Sawhney also said in one of his older videos (pre-Ladakh) that China has permanently shifted its strategy on India. China has been waiting for India to show good will for decades. Now, that era is over. India entering the US-led "quad" is the main reason. China needs to position its forces in a way that it can threaten to damage India if it decided to damage China.
 
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chain smoker

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It's not because of Pakistan. Praveen Sawhney explained it in one of his recent videos. He put it very simply: When India joined the "quad" and decided to lead the charge in "containing" China, it crossed a red line. Basically, India has raised itself from being a tactical threat to a strategic one.

This is why China is demanding something in these "talks" which it knows India won't agree to. China has no intention of retreating from these hills, because now it can cut off India from supplying its northern sector. This move is countering India's open threat to China's CPEC project, which is also tied to strategic supply lines. China has locked in its position on the ground now, because India has made its hostile intentions clear.

Sawhney also said in one of his older videos (pre-Ladakh) that China has permanently shifted its strategy on India. China has been waiting for India to show good will for decades. Now, that era is over. India entering the US-led "quad" is the main reason. China needs to position its forces in a way that it can threaten to damage India if it decided to damage China.
not sure which hill are you talking about but we have alternate routes available to supply our troops stationed in siachen glacier.
 

Mohsin77

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Which other land route supplies SSN? (sub sector north) This is the sector which borders the Karakorum pass.
 
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