Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Frankly I don't know what they teach these days in business school as I did my MBA more than 30 years ago. There were clearly diversity of subjects as the objective was to develop generalist and not specialist but bullshit and propaganda was definitely not in the program. I think you are confusing political studies with business studies. LOL.
In any regard, Turkey is no doubt happy with their new "missiles" of the S400... yes? life goes on my friend

This F-35 deal will be a fiasco, but life in Turkey has taken a turn..... yes, indeed it has......
 

Brumby

Major
In any regard, Turkey is no doubt happy with their new "missiles" of the S400... yes? life goes on my friend

This F-35 deal will be a fiasco, but life in Turkey has taken a turn..... yes, indeed it has......
Turkey in the best of times was already a difficult alliance partner due to political ideology. Initially they probably thought they could get away with having the cake and eating it. The Japanese additional requirements could easily absorb the slack coming off the Turkey loss.

No doubt the S-400 is a very capable system especially against European 4th gen platforms. Imagine how would a Rafale or Typhoon take on a S-400 system? Turkey would also loose a lot in terms of capabilities without the F-35. Their LHD would now lack true aviation capability without the F-35B.
 
Sure Bro, you and your new bestie here on SDF, (Mr. analyzeverything, did you ever watch the "odd couple" with Jack Klugman and Tony Curtis?) know more than the combined Air Forces of all of the F-35's partners, including the Head of the Polish Air Force?? (now that truly is "ironic", is it NOT??)

So when you were in the States, something gave you a very bad taste? did you work for LockMart? you seem to have a personal grudge against the greatest fighter factory on the planet my friend??

explain this to me, PM me, really?? I got's to KNOW??

...
Brother we've been through this a few times over the years:

the F-35 Program is an example of what ('one-size-fits-all') and how NOT to procure

Apr 14, 2019
in Japan Thread

you claimed it was great to have so many industrial participants in the program Today at 7:16 AM
while this is a ridiculous idea according to me:
supply chain should be as SHORT as possible, not as LONG as possible
 
and in the meantime
Turkey officially kicked out of F-35 program, costing US half a billion dollars
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The U.S. has removed Turkey from the F-35 joint strike fighter program, and Turkey will lose its
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on the jet by March 2020, following its acceptance of the S-400 Russian-made air defense system
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.

However, a top Pentagon official would not close the door on Turkey
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in some form, should it reverse the decision to buy the S-400.

The White House issued a statement Wednesday confirming the move, which Washington had threatened for months.

“Turkey’s decision to purchase Russian S-400 air defense systems renders its continued involvement with the F-35 impossible,” the White House statement read. “The F-35 cannot coexist with a Russian intelligence collection platform that will be used to learn about its advanced capabilities.”

“Turkey has been a longstanding and trusted partner and NATO Ally for over 65 years, but accepting the S-400 undermines the commitments all NATO Allies made to each other to move away from Russian systems," the statement continued.

Shortly after the statement was released, the Pentagon held a rare on-camera press conference to explain the process moving forward, with Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition Ellen Lord and Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Policy David Trachtenberg.

“Turkey cannot field a Russian intelligence collection platform in proximity to where the F-35 program makes repairs, and houses the F-35,” Lord said. “Much of the F-35′s strength lies in its stealth capabilities, so the ability to detect those capabilities would jeopardize the long term security of the F-35 program. We seek only to protect the long term security of the F-35 program.”

Turkey, a partner in the F-35 program that helped fund the development of the jet, planned to buy 100 F-35As. Its first jet was
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in a festive “delivery ceremony." Though Turkey formally owns its jets, the U.S. has said it has the power to keep the planes from moving to Turkish soil and intends to keep all four existing Turkish jets from leaving the U.S.

Lord avoided saying that the door was shut on Turkey returning to the program should the S-400 be removed from its soil and repeatedly used the term “suspension” to characterize Turkey’s status in the F-35 program. When asked twice whether Turkey could be welcomed back if the situation changes, Lord did not give a direct answer one way or the other.

“At this point, the Turks have made a decision. We have said the F-35 and S-400 are incompatible. We will work forward at this point to unwind the relationship," she said.

All Turkish F-35 personnel have been informed they must leave the U.S. by July 31, including 20 individuals assigned to the Joint Program Office. Neither official would comment on if any of those individuals have requested asylum.

By March 2020, Turkey’s industrial participation in the F-35 program, which includes production on about 900 parts for the stealthy fighter, will be “unwound." Lord said the projection is this will cost Turkey’s economy around $9 billion over the life of the program. American suppliers will initially fill those production roles, but the goal is to eventually farm some of it out to other partners.

Lord said the process will have “minimal” impacts on the larger F-35 program because of the planning that has already gone on for several months.

To move the production from Turkey to the U.S. will require between $500-$600 million in nonrecurring engineering costs, Lord said. Which partners, if any, would be willing to buy the F-35s already in production for Turkey was still being worked out.

Trachtenberg consistently delivered the same message over and over: that this situation is not one that should impact the broader NATO alliance. That includes Turkey’s participation in NATO exercises, particularly upcoming events in Georgia, Germany and Ukraine.

Asked several times how Turkey having an air-defense system that cannot be linked to other NATO systems and could be used to spy on NATO jets would not harm alliance cohesion, Trachtenberg repeatedly said the relationship between Turkey, the U.S. and NATO will be able to continue.

In a statement, Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor on the F-35 program, said, “This is a government-to-government matter, and as always, we are following official U.S. Government guidance as it relates to delivery of the F-35 to Turkey and the export of goods from the Turkish supply chain.”

“Over the last several months we’ve been working to establish alternative sources of supply in the United States to quickly accommodate Turkey’s current contributions to the program. These actions will limit any future production or sustainment impact and we remain on track to meet our commitment of delivering 131 F-35s this year,” the statement added.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Brother we've been through this a few times over the years:

the F-35 Program is an example of what ('one-size-fits-all') and how NOT to procure

Apr 14, 2019
Those industrial participants help pay development and production cost for all the other partners, so you have development, production expenses spread over a dozen partners, depending on their financial and purchase commitments, I guess you don't understand "long division" but if you and I together buy an airplane because alone we wouldn't be able to pay for it, that is a 50% reduction in purchase price and fixed expenditures, such as insurance, licensing, and maintenance....??? but that may be a hard concept to grasp friend??

Partners are lining up and writing checks Dude, that's "INCOME", it benefits each and every partner to spread the bills around.....

and no doubt, I'll keep having to remind you of the benefits of partners, the Chinese know? (attempting to gain some partners in the FC-31, no takers yet!), the Russians know, selling 24 Su35 to the Chinese, helped them finance their own Air Force purchase! its real simple
 
Those industrial participants help pay development and production cost for all the other partners, so you have development, production expenses spread over a dozen partners, depending on their financial and purchase commitments, I guess you don't understand "long division" but if you and I together buy an airplane because alone we wouldn't be able to pay for it, that is a 50% reduction in purchase price and fixed expenditures, such as insurance, licensing, and maintenance....??? but that may be a hard concept to grasp friend??

...
what you've just described is Clinton-era "thinking", now:
DOD: Relocating F-35 Supply Chain Costs Up to $600 Million
7/17/2019
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now
Russia to Turkey: While you’re at it, would you like some jets?
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Russia is prepared to sell Turkey some of its most advanced fighter jets, Rostec CEO Sergei Chemezov said.

The possible sale comes after the U.S.
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from the F-35 fighter jet program in response to Ankara’s purchase of Russian S-400 air defense systems.

The U.S. decision was the culmination of two years of growing tension with Turkey, which launched efforts to to purchase four S-400 batteries in 2017. At various times, Washington suggested Turkey could face sanctions for purchasing Russian defense hardware.

In an official Rostec statement released Thursday, Chemezov was quoted as saying Russia is prepared to help Turkey procure advanced fighter jets. But the jets on offer are hardly an analogue of the stealthy F-35. Rather, Chemezov is offering up the Su-35, a heavily souped-up version of the Su-27.

"If our Turkish colleagues express a desire, we are ready to work out the deliveries of Su-35 fighter jets," Chemezov said.

The Su-35 is a heavy multirole fighter jet and has recently become a popular export item. One of the jet’s standout features is extreme maneuverability. There are several videos online of Su-35s performing the demanding and impressive Pugachev’s Cobra maneuver.

The jet had its combat debut in Syria in early 2016 to beef up escorts of Russian Su-24 and Su-34 fighter-bombers deployed in the conflict there. It was, ironically, part of Moscow’s message to Ankara after Turkish air defenses shot down a Russian Su-24 in November 2015.

The Su-35 is not a stealth fighter, like Russia’s developmental Su-57. The Su-57 project is years behind schedule, and expectations have been downgraded several times in recent years. The Russian Air Force has focused on more Su-35 procurements while delaying the Su-57.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Note Undersecretary Lord's specific use of the term "suspension", and general caginess.
It would require one of three possible changes of the political landscape.
  • Withdraw of S400 by Turkey.
  • Removal of S400 missile system by Russia
  • President Trump or his potential successor to push hard to sell F35
  • US Congress to push back against the Executive branch and reinstate sales to Turkey.
Turkey won’t drop S400. Erdogan has invested to much and his distrust of the US is more than that of Russia.

Russia won’t withdraw the system, they have wanted Turkey on their side so to speak. This weakens US abilities out of its Air base in Turkey and locks up a major ally in the Eurasian theater for Russia.

President Trump won’t flip flop on this to close to reelection, to much at state.

Congress won’t flip flop on this to close to an election.
 
In business school, one of the first thing taught in business strategy is the concept of "SWOT". For every threat there is an equal opportunity. I would say, bring it on with the S-400 and let the F-35 vacuum up every emission from its system. After all the F-35 is designed to take on the S-400 of the world.
here's
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"The biggest acquisition disaster Opens a New Window. in the Pentagon’s Opens a New Window. history shows no sign of abating.

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), the poster child for ineptitude and inefficiency in defense procurement, ..." and so on:

Need for new F-15s reflects F-35 catastrophe
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