Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
I still think a joint-venture between Russia, China and Turkey for engine development would be ideal. If possible, even Pakistan would join, provided such a joint-venture actually transpires, and whether Pakistan is permitted to join in.
I think a Sino-Russian cooperation on combat jet engine development of that sort is still some time away.
But not totally away given prior tech transfer and supposed joint development on the engine for the CRAIC CR929.
I think if the work on that engine goes well, perhaps we will see further joint engine development attempts.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Sad situation. no doubt the Russians are happy, and Erdogan no doubt is having a chuckle for the present, but when all that work goes away because he broke the security agreement, there won't be any refund coming his way....

He's cost NATO billions of dollars in restructuring F-35 production, and 1,000 of Turkish people their up and coming aerospace futures, so yes, its gonna hurt, yes, its going to slow down F-35 production, and Turkey will not be able to purchase a true 5 Generation jet fighter, they won't be able to build one either, so they will be SOL.
 

Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
Sad situation. no doubt the Russians are happy, and Erdogan no doubt is having a chuckle for the present, but when all that work goes away because he broke the security agreement, there won't be any refund coming his way....

He's cost NATO billions of dollars in restructuring F-35 production, and 1,000 of Turkish people their up and coming aerospace futures, so yes, its gonna hurt, yes, its going to slow down F-35 production, and Turkey will not be able to purchase a true 5 Generation jet fighter, they won't be able to build one either, so they will be SOL.
Agree, , Turkey should stop to supply any part to F35, making it impossible to manufacture more airplane for few years.

That should be an interesting shock for the project.


And you want to say Turkey doesn't know better the capability of F-35 and S-400 than you ?

They part of the manufacturing of the plane, they have three magnitude more information about S400 and four more about the F35 than you (or me ) ,but they are the ones who can't make a decision that is good for them ?


The decision to buy the S400 in this situation showing the F35 as a practically useless thing against the S400.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Agree, , Turkey should stop to supply any part to F35, making it impossible to manufacture more airplane for few years.

That should be an interesting shock for the project.


And you want to say Turkey doesn't know better the capability of F-35 and S-400 than you ?

They part of the manufacturing of the plane, they have three magnitude more information about S400 and four more about the F35 than you (or me ) ,but they are the ones who can't make a decision that is good for them ?


The decision to buy the S400 in this situation showing the F35 as a practically useless thing against the S400.
the decision to buy the S400 is a manipulation to force the West to "kick" Turkey out of the F-35 program, Mr. Erdogan see's any Western influence as a "danger" to his standing in Turkey...

He knows the Russians don't care what he does?? against his own citizens or the Kurd's?

As for your inference that the F-35 is useless against the S400, feel free to believe any non-sense you wish, but if a shooting war broke out, 20 to 1, I would prefer to be in the cockpit of the F-35 to the control room of the S400.....

Those F-35's will "smoke those mobile rocket launchers" like Peking Duck!
 

Dolcevita

Senior Member
the decision to buy the S400 is a manipulation to force the West to "kick" Turkey out of the F-35 program, Mr. Erdogan see's any Western influence as a "danger" to his standing in Turkey...

He knows the Russians don't care what he does?? against his own citizens or the Kurd's?

As for your inference that the F-35 is useless against the S400, feel free to believe any non-sense you wish, but if a shooting war broke out, 20 to 1, I would prefer to be in the cockpit of the F-35 to the control room of the S400.....

Those F-35's will "smoke those mobile rocket launchers" like Peking Duck!
so yet again moderator lets afb gets away with repugnant and malicious political conjecture.
 

Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
the decision to buy the S400 is a manipulation to force the West to "kick" Turkey out of the F-35 program, Mr. Erdogan see's any Western influence as a "danger" to his standing in Turkey...

He knows the Russians don't care what he does?? against his own citizens or the Kurd's?

As for your inference that the F-35 is useless against the S400, feel free to believe any non-sense you wish, but if a shooting war broke out, 20 to 1, I would prefer to be in the cockpit of the F-35 to the control room of the S400.....

Those F-35's will "smoke those mobile rocket launchers" like Peking Duck!
Spending huge political capital for something not useful would be foolish.

And again, even Bangladesh military has better information about the F35 and Sx00 than all person on this forum together.

Turkey is in the top ten (maybe five ) country to know every relevant/ important details of the F35.

If they willing to spend huge political capital to loose the plane and buy the S400, then it is the best evidence about the capability of the Russian SAM, and the issues with the F35.

Buying the S400 doesn't bring any political capital, it spend it.


You mixing up the "spending money" with "earning money" regards of this matter.
Turkey paying waaaay more for those SAMs than few billion $, so it is more expansive than the Patriot and F35 together.

Saying anything else can only explained by the next options :
1 the given person sharing classified information (unlikely )
2. the given person talk due to political reasons.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Spending huge political capital for something not useful would be foolish.
they tried to spend their political capital to get both. But had spent it all over the last few year on domestic affairs and smear.
And again, even Bangladesh military has better information about the F35 and Sx00 than all person on this forum together.
doubtful as they have never been part of The F35 consortium or received a classified brief on it.
Turkey is in the top ten (maybe five ) country to know every relevant/ important details of the F35.

If they willing to spend huge political capital to loose the plane and buy the S400, then it is the best evidence about the capability of the Russian SAM, and the issues with the F35.
look again they tried to keep both. They wanted both platforms. When the US applied pressure to choose they chose not to choose, they were hyping the coming program had pilots in training right up till the US said so which is it? They thought they could play winner take all and walk away with both. The US President and Congress said that’s not how it works and finally said “Okay deal is off.”
Buying the S400 doesn't bring any political capital, it spend it.
what little was left If it. Turkish US relations have been on the down turn for the better part of a decade now much like Turkish Israel relations fell apart.
In 2017 polls found that 70% of Turks felt more threatened by the US than Russia or China. Whether the polling was absolutely accurate or not the fact is that that seems to be how the Turkish Government also leans.
The Andrew Brunson affair seriously broke relations farther and threats to raid the Air base in the country as well as against Kurdish population continues to stress the relationship.
The fact is the F35 deal Is off. Erdogan wanted Both systems. He wanted them to build his Neo Ottoman Empire. But the price of buying S400 was the last of the US Mil to Mil technology exchanges. This is t the only case where it has happened like this, the Turkish relationship with Germany is also stressed to the point that Germany refused upgrades of the Leopard 2A4 tanks and MTU engines for the Turkish Altay tanks.
The Israelis were once close allies of Turkey Some of Turkey’s top tanks the Sabra series were M60 tanks rebuilt with Israeli Armor, weapons and systems. There were plans for even more but that relationship soured hard.
 
noted
Trump cuts off F-35 for Turkey. And lawmakers say sanctions are coming.
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After days of silence about whether Turkey will be punished for accepting
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, U.S. President Donald Trump has made it clear: Turkey will now be cut off from the F-35.

“And we are now telling Turkey ... we’re not going to sell you the
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,” Trump told reporters Tuesday.

“It’s a very tough situation that they’re in. And it’s a very tough situation that we’ve been placed in the United States," Trump said. “With all of that being said, we’re working through it. We’ll see what happens, but it’s not really fair.”

Notably, the president did not say whether he would impose sanctions on Turkey under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, or
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. But members of Congress this week said the law is very clear: Trump has no choice but to sanction its NATO ally.

Trump’s announcement makes official what had been expected for months — that the decision to purchase the S-400, a Russian made system, would require Turkey be divested from the F-35 program. However, the delay in responding to the S-400’s arrival in Turkey had led to speculation Trump was looking to avoid a fight with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, whom he has expressed friendliness with in the past.

Erdoğan, for his part, has expressed a belief that Trump has the authority to waive sanctions on Turkey for its purchase of the Russian air defense systems and must “find the middle ground.” But Trump may find Congress closed the door to compromise last year when it set a high bar to waive U.S. sanctions on countries that buy Russian weapons.

Lawmakers from both parties said the waiver language was included to accommodate allies India and Vietnam, it was tailor-made not to let Turkey off the hook for its purchase of the S-400, and a waiver would be impermissible under current circumstances. The White House, under the law, will instead have to choose from the law’s menu of sanctions, several lawmakers said.

“There’s wide latitude about what to do about the sanctions, but the sanctions certainly need to be put in place,” Oklahoma Republican Sen. James Lankford, R-Okla., a Turkey critic and one of the lawmakers involved in drafting the waiver provision, said Tuesday.

Stealthy Trouble

The U.S. and other NATO allies have expressed alarm for several years over the purchase of the S-400, reportedly costing more than $2 billion, over concerns that plugging the Russian system into the alliance could lead to data leaks and security breaches, including concerns it would allow Russians to gain information about the stealthy F-35 fighter.

The Turkish Defence Ministry on July 12 announced it has received the first pieces of the S-400 at Murted Air Base, located near Ankara. That delivery had been marked as a point that would trigger sanctions against Turkey, while also serving as a breaking point for Ankara’s participation in the F-35 program.

The Pentagon initially called a press briefing the morning of July 12, then rescheduled it for later that day; it was eventually postponed indefinitely. No statement about the F-35’s fate had been issued until Tuesday, when Secretary of Defense nominee Mark Esper was asked about it during a Senate confirmation hearing.

“It’s certainly disappointing. Those are my words. Very disappointing,” Esper said. “The policy that I’ve communicated to my counterpart, if confirmed, defense minister, is you can either have the S-400 or the F-35. You cannot have both. Acquisition of the S-400 fundamentally undermines the capabilities of the F-35 and our ability to maintain that overmatch in the skies going forward.”

Turkey, a partner in the F-35 program that helped fund the development of the jet, plans to buy 100 F-35As. Its first jet was rolled out in June 2018 in a festive “delivery ceremony,” but although Turkey formally owns its jets, the United States has the power to keep the planes from moving to Turkish soil and intends to keep all four existing Turkish jets from leaving the United States. The U.S. has already stopped training Turkish pilots on the F-35 and has given Ankara until the end of July to get its personnel out of the U.S.

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