Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


Brumby

Major
here's
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"The biggest acquisition disaster Opens a New Window. in the Pentagon’s Opens a New Window. history shows no sign of abating.

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), the poster child for ineptitude and inefficiency in defense procurement, ..." and so on:

Need for new F-15s reflects F-35 catastrophe
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I did not bother to read the contents of the link. If you think the F-15EX has any nexus with the F-35 please point it out. The F-15 aging airframe and associated capacity gap is because Congress truncated the F-22 program. Had the full buy been maintained, the F-15EX would not even be in consideration as the whole F-15C fleet would be retired. People write stuff out of ignorance and connect dots when there aren't any. We now live in a world where up is down and black is white because reason and logic is suspended. There are plenty of arguments in this forum based on fantasy stuff and you just need an echo chamber to sustain it.
 
now
Turkish defense firms set to lose billions after F-35 removal
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Turkish defense companies helping to build F-35 stealth fighter jets are set to lose work worth billions of dollars after Washington said it was removing Turkey from the program over its purchase of a Russian missile defense system.

Eight Turkish firms have been involved in producing the advanced fighter jets, supplying hundreds of items including parts for cockpit display systems and landing gear, on contracts the Pentagon said would have been worth $9 billion over the course of the program.

The head of Turkey’s Defense Industry Directorate acknowledged on Thursday that the U.S. decision to move the work elsewhere - and the potential for additional U.S. sanctions - would be a setback for those companies.

Ismail Demir said the losses would be only temporary, arguing that the companies could emerge stronger in the long run. But analysts said the move was a major blow to firms which had worked on the jet production for a decade, and would also limit Turkey’s access to new defense technology.

“I don’t know how companies will try to compensate for this, as they have been part of an established production chain since 2007,” Sinan Ulgen, visiting scholar at Carnegie Europe and a former Turkish diplomat, told Reuters.

Turkish companies involved in the program are Roketsan, Havelsan, Alp Aviation, Ayesas, Kale Aerospace, Tubitak-SAGE, the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), and the Turkish leg of the Dutch Fokker Elmo, according to the F-35 official website.

None of the companies were immediately available to comment.

Demir said they would evaluate how to compensate for their losses. Kale Group said in April that if Turkey were to be excluded from the F-35 project, any lost sales would be offset by turning to civil aviation.

But Ulgen said that finding swift alternatives to such highly specialized work was not easy.

“What can a factory that produces a part for the body of the F-35 do? What can it change into, where can it go? ... This isn’t the automotive sector, where you make a part for a BMW and then sell it to Ford when there is a change,” Ulgen said.

Unal Cevikoz, Deputy Chairman of the main opposition Republican People’s Party, put the value of contracts that would be canceled at $12 billion and said many jobs were at stake.

“These firms have almost 30,000 employees. What are these people going to do?” he said in a statement.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I did not bother to read the contents of the link. If you think the F-15EX has any nexus with the F-35 please point it out. The F-15 aging airframe and associated capacity gap is because Congress truncated the F-22 program. Had the full buy been maintained, the F-15EX would not even be in consideration as the whole F-15C fleet would be retired. People write stuff out of ignorance and connect dots when there aren't any. We now live in a world where up is down and black is white because reason and logic is suspended. There are plenty of arguments in this forum based on fantasy stuff and you just need an echo chamber to sustain it.
Well stated Mr. Brumby!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
now
Turkish defense firms set to lose billions after F-35 removal
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and here finally is the truth my friend, the Turkish people will suffer for this very poor decision on the part of their President, Turkish people, families, and companies will suffer the loss of this partnership, the US has been a faithful defense partner to Turkey for many years, supporting their entry into NATO, and not only offering the sale of our very best, but a part and parcel of every sale to enrich the Turkish people...

all thrown away, and yes, they will lose billions of dollars, but more importantly their highly esteemed position in this defense partnership!
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
.. Let's not arrogantly dismiss the Turks just yet.

Sorry for this OT post, but it is not arrogance, but plain logic; given the latest developments, it is a so much unrealistic project, that I would even rate it pure Turkish arrogance to think they could manage something, in which other nations with much more experience failed before.


Just look: What did Turkey so far develop? ... Nothing, not even any comparable plane alone.

And now they want to develop a Raptor-class aricraft from scratch? This is plain ridiculous ... they have so only completed for others, they licece assemblied for others or manufactured for others. They have no engine and AFAIK RR bailed out only tob e replaced by General Electric … but given the latest developments I cannot see GE develop a new engine fort hem. And any Turkish company alone?? That’s a joke.


And even if everything goes fine, political issues will settle … how will they fly a prototype by 2025 and be read for serial production after only three years in 2028 – given their own claims - ??? Neither the US with their F-22 and F-35 projects managed this, nor China with the J-20 … and the Russians are still struggling with their Su-57. So simply forget it.

And now back to the JF-17-
 

Inst

Senior Member
The Raptor is rather obsolete junk once you consider the F-35 with its EODAS and enhanced stealth. We have rumors that the F-35 is utilizing metamaterials, but we are certain that the F-22 is not. Likewise, the initial variant lacked an EOTS / IRST equivalent, which is only coming with an MLU.

It's not unbelievable for the Turks to build a Raptor-equivalent considering that it's essentially 1995 technology.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
..

It's not unbelievable for the Turks to build a Raptor-equivalent considering that it's essentially 1995 technology.

And based on what?? They have barely designed and developed anything on their own, they have no engine nad if they continue with this political game I see no Chance of getting any help from anyone in the West, ... and meta-material is neither some sort of magic which solves everything nor is it easily available.

If it would be so much easy "to build a Raptor-equivalent considering that it's essentially 1995 technology" just tell me why Russia and China, both with vast experience and a well established aviation industry so far either failed or needed so Long to succeed and Turky with barely ZERO experience should manage this until 2028?? Forget it, this is nothing but a wet-dream and it will in the end even more dramatically fail than the Indian Tejas.
 

foxmulder_ms

Junior Member
Not too long ago everyone was scoffing at China. J-10... yeah right. Let's not arrogantly dismiss the Turks just yet.

:) Keep comparing China to Turkey. Either you don't know anything about the two countries or you have some ulterior motive. Turkey does not have money, human capital or know-how, period. There is literately zero chance they can develop TF-X. They may develop smt like a Grippen if they can get a lot of direct help from others but it will be a project like tejas destined to failure from the inception. Look at any project Turkey claims as their own development. They all have their critical sub-systems imported.
 

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