News on China's scientific and technological development.


styx

Junior Member
Registered Member
Spending alone on R&D does not show the whole picture on tech situation of a country.
There are so many variables. Types or natures of tech, cost efficiency of money spend, efficient educational institutions, and the priorities of every country's technologies are different. The situations keep changing. A small country with less spending is not necessary less developed than bigger and richer countries. Ask the Israel or Singapore.
but not least china R&D is financed in biggest part by government
 

MortyandRick

New Member
Registered Member
China can develop its own chips. The west will simply ban it. You can only sell it in china’s and a few developing countries. Then what.
I think this is putting the cart before the horse. Currently china's big issue is that she cannot produce all the chips she needs to drive the economy. China relies on the west and its allies for those chips, they are a resource like oil. Previously there was a article put on the semiconductor forum which showed that the west wanted to keep semiconductor manufacturing tech away form China so in the future China has to bend to the West's will to access high end chips. That's leverage against China.

China's goal right now is to be self sufficient, not dominated global market. Being self sufficient first then think about geopolitics and then dominate. Huawei was successful in China with their Telecom equipment before becoming a global force. But their weakness is they cannot produce their own chips, so now the fear is they won't be able to complete 5G rollout in China, which I suspect is another factor behjnd the ban. China may have to rely on Ericsson or Nokia to finish the roll out, in which case the west would have leverage over China. If they were able to produce their own chips, then they can completely dominate domestic market and still compete internationally even in the west i figure. You gotta be strong at home first, then spread internationally
 

supercat

Junior Member
Baidu Unveils Plan to Increase Investments in New Infrastructure to Power the Rise of Industrial AI
Baidu Plans to Deploy 5 Million AI Cloud Servers by 2030 and Train 5 Million AI Professionals

BEIJING, July 2, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Baidu, Inc. recently announced that it will increase its investments in cloud computing, AI education, AI platforms, chipsets, and data centers in the coming ten years as part of its efforts to construct "new infrastructure" for the smart economy of the future.

Under the plan, Baidu aims to have 5 million intelligent cloud servers by 2030 and train 5 million AI professionals within 5 years, which will help facilitate the widespread application of AI in transportation, city management, finance, energy, health care, and manufacturing to eventually achieve industrial intelligence.

"New infrastructure--which encompasses emerging technologies like AI, cloud computing, 5G, IoT, and blockchain--will be the driver for China's economic development in the coming decades," said Baidu Chief Technology Officer Haifeng Wang, underscoring the importance of the plan.

"As a world-leading AI platform company, Baidu is well positioned to make large contributions to the development of new infrastructure in China, which will support the implementation of AI applications in different industries."

The investment plan will see Baidu deploy 5 million intelligent cloud servers by 2030, an ambitious target that would create a combined computing capability equal to seven times the total calculable computing power of the world's existing top 500 supercomputers.

Viewing human capital as a core component of new infrastructure, Baidu also intends to train 5 million AI professionals in the next five years. Baidu has been working with more than 200 leading universities in China to develop courses related to AI and deep learning and has already trained more than 1 million AI experts.

As a developer of both AI infrastructure and AI applications, Baidu is well-positioned to contribute to building new style infrastructure, which is at the core of China's "New Infrastructure" policy to accelerate economic growth and industrial upgrade.

Baidu has more than 7,000 published AI patent applications in China, the highest in the country. The AI open platform Baidu Brain has made available more than 250 core AI capabilities to over 1.9 million developers, while PaddlePaddle, the largest open-source deep learning platform in China, services 84,000 enterprises. Baidu's Kunlun and Honghu AI chips are among the highest preforming AI chips and are built for a wide range of scenarios. Baidu Cloud is China's leader in public cloud and AI cloud services with more than ten data centers across the country.

This new infrastructure is already allowing Baidu to lead the intelligent transformation of different industries. Baidu's smart finance products serve nearly 200 financial institutions, while Baidu's intelligent healthcare prouducts are deployed at more than 300 hospitals and 1500 grassroots medical institutions. Baidu Brain for Cities is already in place in Chongqing, Suzhou, and other cities, supporting more intelligent city management. Baidu's new investments will enhance its ability to rollout AI applications in these scenarios, as well as in manufacturing, energy, and transportation.
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ansy1968

Junior Member
Registered Member
Its safe to say that the SMIC had master the 7nm that is due this year using the current ASML DUV machine, it also means that the transition from using the SMEE 28nm lithographic will be smooth since both are comparable. As mention by Superdog, It all depend on how the user skillfully handle the device.

From cnTechPost

SMIC Chairman: Procurement of EUV lithography progressing normally

2020-07-06 17:03:01 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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SMIC Chairman: Procurement of EUV lithography progressing normally-cnTechPost

SMIC's current projects do not require EUV lithography at the moment, said Zhou Zixue, Chairman of China's biggest foundry Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC).

On the morning of July 6, SMIC held an initial public offering (IPO) investor conference, where Zhou answered questions.

Zhou added that he would not comment on the purchase of a single device in accordance with relevant commercial agreements.
Lithography is the core of chip manufacturing, and is the equipment required for ultraviolet exposure.
It works in a similar way to film photo processing, which also determines the chip process.


In 2006, lithography manufacturer ASML introduced the EUV photolithography model, with input from Intel, Samsung Electronics and TSMC in the development process.
ASML results show that a total of 26 sets of EUV lithography machines were delivered in 2019, bringing it 2.789 billion euros revenue, accounting for 31% of the year.

That the price is so high still triggers a scramble for semiconductors because EUV lithography is needed for 7nm and more advanced processes.
Samsung Electronics and TSMC are already using them for chip production, and Intel plans to use the lithography machine as well.


In early 2018, ASML entered into a purchase order with SMIC for EUV lithography, worth about $120 million, originally Deliveries were expected in late 2019.

However, deliveries were not made because the Dutch government did not issue a new export license to ASML.
In the wake of the novel coronavirus outbreak, ASML said lithography manufacturing was unaffected and there was no change in demand, but supply chain constraints led to delivery delays.

ASML mentions the impact on customers in Wuhan, although SMIC is not directly named, but it has a 12-inch wafer fab in Wuhan and SMIC is the only company in China that has placed orders.
It's worth noting that SMIC has disclosed that the first generation of 14nm FinFET technology has entered mass production, while the second generation has entered mass production in the second generation. Continuous customer introduction.

For the follow up, SMIC joint CEO Meng Song Liang has revealed that in the current environment, N+1 and N+2 generation processes will not be With the EUV process, the post-N+2 process will not shift to EUV lithography until the equipment is ready.
However, there is general industry consensus that advanced processes after N+2 must rely on EUV lithography for implementation.


The company did not have a direct answer as to the timeline for subsequent advanced process entry.

SMIC Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President Gao Yonggang said that the specific R&D progress will be disclosed in real time based on the actual situation.
In the first quarter of 2020, 14nm contributed 1.3% of SMIC's revenue.
 

Peter2018

Junior Member
Registered Member
Dollar for dollar doesn't really mean anything when comparing countries. Why is it that Japan and South Korea are still trying to develop a stealth fighter while China is coming up to decade now having one? They're supposedly more advanced yet no stealth fighter of their own. Or look at rare earths. I'm always reading how the West is cheering finding a non-Chinese rare earth deposit. They're everywhere yet it's the refining process that makes it cost so much. So why are they complaining when they can process them on their own? It's because it will always cost them vastly more not getting them from China.
China should restrict the export of precious raw materials and save them for itself. This is another way of neutralizing any unreasonable sanctions.
 

ansy1968

Junior Member
Registered Member
We are fifth place for now:(, a long way to go, SMIC had also plan for both 5nm & 3nm, need to work hard and do more R&D. With the level of Govt and private sector financial support (SMEE need to step up your EUV development) , within 5 years hopefully 3rd place is with in reach. jia you!!! GO GO GO!!! SMIC

from cnTechPost

SMIC ranks 5th in Q2 global foundry market share
2020-07-06 18:54:04 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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In the second quarter of this year, TSMC held 51.5% of the global foundry market share, topping the list, according to TrendForce.
Samsung ranks second, with a share of 18.8%. The third and fourth places are Global Foundries and UMC.

Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC), China's biggest foundry, ranks fifth.

SMIC ranks 5th in Q2 global foundry market share-cnTechPost

TSMC and Samsung are the only companies that have mass-produced 7nm and are putting 5nm into production.
The Apple A14 Bionic processor is being manufactured at TSMC's Tainan plant, which started construction in 2018, and is expected to be the world's first large-scale The mass-produced 5nm mobile processor can integrate up to 15 billion transistors inside, 76% more than the A13's 8.5 billion.


If nothing else, TSMC's 3nm will be available in 2022, and it could be the curtain-raiser for FinFETs.
7nm can hold 96.5 million transistors per square millimeter, 5nm expands to 170 million, and 3nm will reach 300 million of them Size.
 

Skywatcher

Senior Member
Its safe to say that the SMIC had master the 7nm that is due this year using the current ASML DUV machine, it also means that the transition from using the SMEE 28nm lithographic will be smooth since both are comparable. As mention by Superdog, It all depend on how the user skillfully handle the device.

From cnTechPost

SMIC Chairman: Procurement of EUV lithography progressing normally
2020-07-06 17:03:01 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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1

SMIC Chairman: Procurement of EUV lithography progressing normally-cnTechPost

SMIC's current projects do not require EUV lithography at the moment, said Zhou Zixue, Chairman of China's biggest foundry Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC).

On the morning of July 6, SMIC held an initial public offering (IPO) investor conference, where Zhou answered questions.

Zhou added that he would not comment on the purchase of a single device in accordance with relevant commercial agreements.
Lithography is the core of chip manufacturing, and is the equipment required for ultraviolet exposure.
It works in a similar way to film photo processing, which also determines the chip process.


In 2006, lithography manufacturer ASML introduced the EUV photolithography model, with input from Intel, Samsung Electronics and TSMC in the development process.
ASML results show that a total of 26 sets of EUV lithography machines were delivered in 2019, bringing it 2.789 billion euros revenue, accounting for 31% of the year.

That the price is so high still triggers a scramble for semiconductors because EUV lithography is needed for 7nm and more advanced processes.
Samsung Electronics and TSMC are already using them for chip production, and Intel plans to use the lithography machine as well.


In early 2018, ASML entered into a purchase order with SMIC for EUV lithography, worth about $120 million, originally Deliveries were expected in late 2019.

However, deliveries were not made because the Dutch government did not issue a new export license to ASML.
In the wake of the novel coronavirus outbreak, ASML said lithography manufacturing was unaffected and there was no change in demand, but supply chain constraints led to delivery delays.

ASML mentions the impact on customers in Wuhan, although SMIC is not directly named, but it has a 12-inch wafer fab in Wuhan and SMIC is the only company in China that has placed orders.
It's worth noting that SMIC has disclosed that the first generation of 14nm FinFET technology has entered mass production, while the second generation has entered mass production in the second generation. Continuous customer introduction.

For the follow up, SMIC joint CEO Meng Song Liang has revealed that in the current environment, N+1 and N+2 generation processes will not be With the EUV process, the post-N+2 process will not shift to EUV lithography until the equipment is ready.
However, there is general industry consensus that advanced processes after N+2 must rely on EUV lithography for implementation.


The company did not have a direct answer as to the timeline for subsequent advanced process entry.

SMIC Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President Gao Yonggang said that the specific R&D progress will be disclosed in real time based on the actual situation.
In the first quarter of 2020, 14nm contributed 1.3% of SMIC's revenue.
Interesting, N2 doesn't need EUV either.
 

ansy1968

Junior Member
Registered Member
A question to Skywatcher, I never had thought that 5G base station used 7nm chips, ZTE is able to develop one and able to gain a lot of market share, I hope Huawei chip stock is enough until SMIC can able to produce in scale.

from cnTechPost

Huawei, ZTE hold 48.9 percent share of 5G telecom equipment market
2020-07-06 22:22:19 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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Huawei ranked first in the 5G telecom equipment market in Q1 with a 35.7% market share, well ahead of the second place holder Ericsson's 24.6%.
The third to fifth places were Nokia (15.8 percent), ZTE (13.2 percent) and Samsung (9.3 percent), respectively.

Huawei, ZTE hold 48.9 percent share of 5G telecom equipment market-cnTechPost


Compared to Q4 2019 figures, Huawei's market share grew by 0.4 percentage points and Ericsson's by 0.8 percentage points. Nokia slipped by 4.5 percentage points, ZTE grew by 3 percentage points and Samsung slipped by 1.2 percentage points.
Huawei, ZTE hold 48.9 percent share of 5G telecom equipment market-cnTechPost

According to Dell'Oro Group's previously published Q4 2018 to Q4 2019 5G telecoms data, even against the backdrop of US sanctions, Chinese telecom equipment manufacturer Huawei's market share still maintained its steady growth and managed to overtake Samsung for the top spot in the second quarter of last year.


According to data revealed in February this year by Huawei's Managing Director and President of Carrier BG, Ding Yun, as of then, Huawei had gained 91 5G commercial contract, 5G Massive MIMO AAU (Active Antenna) Unit) module shipped more than 600,000 units worldwide.
Another Chinese major telecom equipment maker, ZTE, also performed well.

While ZTE had almost zero market share in 5G telecom equipment at the time of the first quarter of 2019, since the second quarter of 2019 it began to see rapid growth.
In the third quarter of 2019, ZTE even exploded to get 9.7% of the market share, and in the following two quarters it also kept Continued rapid growth.


By the time of the first quarter of this year, it had taken ZTE, which started from zero, just one year to overtake Samsung, which had first-mover advantage, to take the 13.2% market share, ranking fourth.

According to Dell'Oro Group data, ZTE's 5G base station shipments started in Q2 2019 .
And according to previous data released by ZTE, as of September 2019, ZTE has won 35 commercial 5G contracts around the world. 5G cooperation with more than 60 operators around the world, and more than 50,000 5G base stations have been shipped globally.

By the end of 2019, ZTE has shipped more than 100,000 5G base stations.
It's worth mentioning that the 5G base stations currently shipped in large numbers are powered by ZTE's self-developed 7nm 5G base station chips.

In July last year, ZTE executive director and president Xu Ziyang said in a media interview that in terms of 5G base station chips, ZTE 7nm process (base station) chips have been designed and mass produced, while 5nm process 5G chips are being developed.
The latest information also shows that ZTE's 5nm base station chips are also in the technology introduction stage and are expected to be mass-produced commercially next year. And this is expected to further boost ZTE's continued market share growth in 5G telecom equipment.


In addition, Huawei and ZTE's 5G telecom market share continued to grow thanks to the acceleration of China's 5G investment and construction.

On June 6 this year, at the first anniversary of 5G licensing online summit, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) released data showing that on the first anniversary of the commercialization of 5G China's basic telecom companies are building more than 250,000 5G base stations.
By the end of this year, China is expected to build more than 600,000 5G base stations, covering cities above the prefecture level nationwide.
 

SoupDumplings

Junior Member
Registered Member
A question to Skywatcher, I never had thought that 5G base station used 7nm chips, ZTE is able to develop one and able to gain a lot of market share, I hope Huawei chip stock is enough until SMIC can able to produce in scale.

from cnTechPost

Huawei, ZTE hold 48.9 percent share of 5G telecom equipment market
2020-07-06 22:22:19 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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0

Huawei ranked first in the 5G telecom equipment market in Q1 with a 35.7% market share, well ahead of the second place holder Ericsson's 24.6%.
The third to fifth places were Nokia (15.8 percent), ZTE (13.2 percent) and Samsung (9.3 percent), respectively.

Huawei, ZTE hold 48.9 percent share of 5G telecom equipment market-cnTechPost


Compared to Q4 2019 figures, Huawei's market share grew by 0.4 percentage points and Ericsson's by 0.8 percentage points. Nokia slipped by 4.5 percentage points, ZTE grew by 3 percentage points and Samsung slipped by 1.2 percentage points.
Huawei, ZTE hold 48.9 percent share of 5G telecom equipment market-cnTechPost

According to Dell'Oro Group's previously published Q4 2018 to Q4 2019 5G telecoms data, even against the backdrop of US sanctions, Chinese telecom equipment manufacturer Huawei's market share still maintained its steady growth and managed to overtake Samsung for the top spot in the second quarter of last year.


According to data revealed in February this year by Huawei's Managing Director and President of Carrier BG, Ding Yun, as of then, Huawei had gained 91 5G commercial contract, 5G Massive MIMO AAU (Active Antenna) Unit) module shipped more than 600,000 units worldwide.
Another Chinese major telecom equipment maker, ZTE, also performed well.

While ZTE had almost zero market share in 5G telecom equipment at the time of the first quarter of 2019, since the second quarter of 2019 it began to see rapid growth.
In the third quarter of 2019, ZTE even exploded to get 9.7% of the market share, and in the following two quarters it also kept Continued rapid growth.


By the time of the first quarter of this year, it had taken ZTE, which started from zero, just one year to overtake Samsung, which had first-mover advantage, to take the 13.2% market share, ranking fourth.

According to Dell'Oro Group data, ZTE's 5G base station shipments started in Q2 2019 .
And according to previous data released by ZTE, as of September 2019, ZTE has won 35 commercial 5G contracts around the world. 5G cooperation with more than 60 operators around the world, and more than 50,000 5G base stations have been shipped globally.

By the end of 2019, ZTE has shipped more than 100,000 5G base stations.
It's worth mentioning that the 5G base stations currently shipped in large numbers are powered by ZTE's self-developed 7nm 5G base station chips.

In July last year, ZTE executive director and president Xu Ziyang said in a media interview that in terms of 5G base station chips, ZTE 7nm process (base station) chips have been designed and mass produced, while 5nm process 5G chips are being developed.
The latest information also shows that ZTE's 5nm base station chips are also in the technology introduction stage and are expected to be mass-produced commercially next year. And this is expected to further boost ZTE's continued market share growth in 5G telecom equipment.


In addition, Huawei and ZTE's 5G telecom market share continued to grow thanks to the acceleration of China's 5G investment and construction.

On June 6 this year, at the first anniversary of 5G licensing online summit, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) released data showing that on the first anniversary of the commercialization of 5G China's basic telecom companies are building more than 250,000 5G base stations.
By the end of this year, China is expected to build more than 600,000 5G base stations, covering cities above the prefecture level nationwide.
Does that mean there will be 600,000 5G stations in China, or that they're building 600,000 5G stations this year?
 

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