News on China's scientific and technological development.


ansy1968

Junior Member
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Does that mean there will be 600,000 5G stations in China, or that they're building 600,000 5G stations this year?
Hi SoupDumplings

According to the article last year until feb 2020 ,I think worldwide, thats a lot, all produced by HUAWEI. I dont know if Huawei used TSMC 12nm or 14nm for their based station.

According to data revealed in February this year by Huawei's Managing Director and President of Carrier BG, Ding Yun, as of then, Huawei had gained 91 5G commercial contract, 5G Massive MIMO AAU (Active Antenna) Unit) module shipped more than 600,000 units worldwide.
Another Chinese major telecom equipment maker, ZTE, also performed well.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi SoupDumplings

According to the article last year until feb 2020 ,I think worldwide, thats a lot, all produced by HUAWEI. I dont know if Huawei used TSMC 12nm or 14nm for their based station.

According to data revealed in February this year by Huawei's Managing Director and President of Carrier BG, Ding Yun, as of then, Huawei had gained 91 5G commercial contract, 5G Massive MIMO AAU (Active Antenna) Unit) module shipped more than 600,000 units worldwide.
Another Chinese major telecom equipment maker, ZTE, also performed well.
I think @SoupDumplings was referring to the end of the article.

By the end of this year, China is expected to build more than 600,000 5G base stations, covering cities above the prefecture level nationwide.
Does that mean there will be 600,000 5G stations in China, or that they're building 600,000 5G stations this year?
 

ansy1968

Junior Member
Registered Member
China to end 2020 with more than 600,000 5G stations. And Huawei is using 7nm TSMC chips for its latest 5G based stations.
hi KYli,

Thanks very much for the info, I hope Huawei had enough stock until next year.
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
Is this a cultural thing again? China's market is continental. If China makes its own chips, its market is large enough to sustain on its own. Why do you need other countries to buy it first? If they want in on the Chinese market they will have to start making products that work with Chinese technology. What, do you need some affirmation from the West in order to believe you succeeded? Chinese making their own standard, the Chinese will be in control of its own technological destiny. The US won't. You already see the US is having trouble getting the world to abandon China. Even US companies aren't leaving China because there's money to be made there. You think the world will obey the US when it comes to their own economic well-being?

I remember when competition reality shows first started and when I heard that there was an Asian on one of these shows, I would watch to see how they come out. One of them was that Tyra Banks model show where they had an Asian contestant. She lasted a while but she was eventually booted from the show. What was the reason why she was booted from the show? They said she wasn't there because she cared about the world of modeling. She was there because she just wanted to win. They didn't show any of this on the show but I said yeah that's true that there are lot of Asians that just want a superficial win to brag about.

That's what makes me see what Beijing does is more a cultural thing and not a communist thing. Beijing thinks just because they've shown a capability to send humans into space, they want to be a part of the International Space Station thinking that's their ticket in. Then Beijing gets upset when China is not accepted as a part of the ISS because the US refuses because China wants it so much, they can use it as a bargaining chip against China. China thinks just doing it is enough. Why would the ISS need China when they can do everything China can do on their own? How about not begging and accept they will never let you instead of embarrassing themselves holding value to it. Why doesn't Beijing concentrate on something of real value and things that haven't been explored yet? But despite the obvious they don't do anything different because it's all about just having the prestige.

All you anti-China Chinese out there are no different. Do not think otherwise. What makes you think you're the exception is superficial. You hold the same values as other Chinese yet just because you hide behind US fake morals, it doesn't make you so. And the Asians who think they're white thinking that's why they're different... even other Asians who think they're white also don't see it. No white, even the ones that like your ilk, will ever consider you as white. Do you think they will give it away when you value it so much and they have and no one else can really be? You're just like the communist in Beijing that you don't like so much wanting to be a part of the ISS.
 
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Weaasel

Junior Member
Registered Member
china’s goal is to produce national champions like Apple and Samsung. And be able to capture global market share. If it’s goal is to just sell in the Chinese market, then China on cruise control can easily achieve that. But to capture global market, geopolitical factors gets involved. This is especially true when the west has effectively painted Chinese tech companies as untrustworthy.
So it’s not about China developing the best tech, although that’s def needed.

The reality is that China's domestic market alone provides sufficient economies of scale for great profitability, even with ambitions to produce a National Champion.
 

Weaasel

Junior Member
Registered Member
Its safe to say that the SMIC had master the 7nm that is due this year using the current ASML DUV machine, it also means that the transition from using the SMEE 28nm lithographic will be smooth since both are comparable. As mention by Superdog, It all depend on how the user skillfully handle the device.

From cnTechPost

SMIC Chairman: Procurement of EUV lithography progressing normally
2020-07-06 17:03:01 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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SMIC Chairman: Procurement of EUV lithography progressing normally-cnTechPost

SMIC's current projects do not require EUV lithography at the moment, said Zhou Zixue, Chairman of China's biggest foundry Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC).

On the morning of July 6, SMIC held an initial public offering (IPO) investor conference, where Zhou answered questions.

Zhou added that he would not comment on the purchase of a single device in accordance with relevant commercial agreements.
Lithography is the core of chip manufacturing, and is the equipment required for ultraviolet exposure.
It works in a similar way to film photo processing, which also determines the chip process.


In 2006, lithography manufacturer ASML introduced the EUV photolithography model, with input from Intel, Samsung Electronics and TSMC in the development process.
ASML results show that a total of 26 sets of EUV lithography machines were delivered in 2019, bringing it 2.789 billion euros revenue, accounting for 31% of the year.

That the price is so high still triggers a scramble for semiconductors because EUV lithography is needed for 7nm and more advanced processes.
Samsung Electronics and TSMC are already using them for chip production, and Intel plans to use the lithography machine as well.


In early 2018, ASML entered into a purchase order with SMIC for EUV lithography, worth about $120 million, originally Deliveries were expected in late 2019.

However, deliveries were not made because the Dutch government did not issue a new export license to ASML.
In the wake of the novel coronavirus outbreak, ASML said lithography manufacturing was unaffected and there was no change in demand, but supply chain constraints led to delivery delays.

ASML mentions the impact on customers in Wuhan, although SMIC is not directly named, but it has a 12-inch wafer fab in Wuhan and SMIC is the only company in China that has placed orders.
It's worth noting that SMIC has disclosed that the first generation of 14nm FinFET technology has entered mass production, while the second generation has entered mass production in the second generation. Continuous customer introduction.

For the follow up, SMIC joint CEO Meng Song Liang has revealed that in the current environment, N+1 and N+2 generation processes will not be With the EUV process, the post-N+2 process will not shift to EUV lithography until the equipment is ready.
However, there is general industry consensus that advanced processes after N+2 must rely on EUV lithography for implementation.


The company did not have a direct answer as to the timeline for subsequent advanced process entry.

SMIC Chief Financial Officer and Executive Vice President Gao Yonggang said that the specific R&D progress will be disclosed in real time based on the actual situation.
In the first quarter of 2020, 14nm contributed 1.3% of SMIC's revenue.
Can any Chinese institution or any entity of any type replicate this DUV Machine?
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Can any Chinese institution or any entity of any type replicate this DUV Machine?
If my understanding from prior posts on this thread is correct, then China’s SMEE can already produce the DUV machines comparable to ASML most advanced DUV machines... the next step is the EUV machines, SMEE have yet to reach that point and I think there are still some technical advancements pending to make that happen.
 

2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Is this a cultural thing again? China's market is continental...
That's what makes me see what Beijing does is more a cultural thing and not a communist thing...
Is it? Or it is not? :) My opinion is both. Marxism, AKA Dialectical Materialism includes culture and science, and of course economics. It's a way of thinking. There's a lot of philosophy, litteracy, sociology, psychology, and arts . In sciences i can trace this way of thinking firstly at motives. China has embraced Marxism in it's own way, combining it's unique cultural elements with an imported one imported from the West. Whitch rejected from the West (?). I'd dare to say suppressed. :) Cultural revolution was a phenomenon that a hardcore Westerner may never understand. At the end Chinese people decided wether they want Communism the hard way, or the long way.
Haters gonna hate in any form anyway. But it's a fact that West lately embraced Eastern cultural elements such as Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, martial arts etc.
 

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