News on China's scientific and technological development.


supercat

Junior Member
China should have started investment in the semiconductor industry a long time ago.
China quadruples fundraising pace for chip self-sufficiency
Sector receives over $20bn in first half as US tech war rages

SHANGHAI -- Chinese chipmakers have already raised more than twice as much from the equity market in 2020 than in all of 2019, with state-backed funds helping the nation's effort to boost domestic output.

Chinese chipmakers have received 144 billion yuan ($20.5 billion) so far this year, including commitments, according to data through Sunday compiled by Nikkei from private databases, company filings and news reports. This far outpaces the 12-month tallies of recent years, including the roughly 64 billion yuan total from 2019.
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ansy1968

Senior Member
Registered Member
China should have started investment in the semiconductor industry a long time ago.

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Hi supercat

Yup I concur, sometimes a kick in the butt is needed to push it thru. Thanks Trump for that, 4 more years of MAGA!!!

This coming 5 years will be critical, but im betting China will overcome.
 

ansy1968

Senior Member
Registered Member
I'm also shocked to know , But I think the core tech is manufactured in Sweden or Finland.

From Raphael (pakistan defense forum)

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Australia is shocked – shocked – to discover that its main supplier of telecom equipment, Ericsson, depends on Chinese equipment from Panda Electronics, a Nanjing-based manufacturer that appears on the Pentagon’s latest list of Chinese companies linked to the People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

The supposedly incendiary revelation, by now widely
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in the Australian
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, came as the US Defense Department named Panda as being "owned by, controlled by or affiliated with China's government, military or defense industries.”

Panda Electronics, it turns, has a joint venture in China with Swedish giant Ericsson, a major supplier of equipment used by Australian telecom network providers Telstra and Optus. Those tie-ups means Panda, by at least one degree of separation, is and will be involved with Australia’s pending 5G rollout.
 

ansy1968

Senior Member
Registered Member
Ban or no ban there is no stopping Huawei.

From zestokryl (PAKISTAN DEFENSE FORUM)

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Huawei has been readying the entire new breed of desktop PCs with a custom motherboard, custom processor, and even a custom operating system. Being that Huawei plans to supply Chinese government institutions with these PCs, it is logical to break away from US-made technology due to security reasons. And now, thanks to the YouTube channel called "二斤自制" we have the first look at the new PC system. Powered by Huawei D920S10 desktop motherboard equipped with Kunpeng 920 7 nm Arm v8 processor with 8 cores, the PC was running the 64-bit UOS operating system, which is a Chinese modification of Linux. In the test, the PC was assembled by a third-party provider and it featured 16 GB of 2666 MHz DDR4 memory and 256 GB SSD.

The YouTube channel put it to test and in the Blender BMW render test, it has finished in 11 minutes and 47 seconds, which is quite slow. The system reportedly managed to stream 4K content well but has struggled with local playback thanks to poor encoding. Being that it runs a custom OS with a custom processor, app selection is quite narrow. The app store for the PC is accessible only if you pay an extra 800 Yuan (~$115), while the mentioned system will set you back 7,500 Yuan (~$1,060). At the heart of this system is eight-core, eight threaded Kunpeng 920 2249K processor. It features a clock speed of 2.6 GHz, has 128K of L1 cache (64K instruction cache and 64K data cache), 512K of L2, and 32 MB of L3 cache.
 

gadgetcool5

Junior Member
Registered Member
Brookings Institution's view on China's lithography prospects are bleak:

" China has virtually no lithography experience or industry. Any Chinese firm trying to develop EUV lithography would have to start from scratch. It would have to close the gap with ASML’s billions of dollars, decades of experience, and the accumulated experience and tacit knowledge of their tens of thousands of employees. And it would have to succeed where experienced, billion-dollar companies failed [note: Probably referring to Nikon]. There is little chance a Chinese company will make an EUV lithography machine in the foreseeable future.

...the United States, the Netherlands, and Japan should impose strict multilateral export controls on the manufacturing equipment—including EUV lithography machines—needed to produce advanced chips. These three countries monopolize chip manufacturing equipment chokepoints with technical barriers to entry similar to that posed by EUV lithography. Targeted export controls will maintain China’s dependence on imports for advanced chips.

In this respect, EUV machines are even more than technological marvels: they offer important avenues for progress. By advancing computer chip technology, they advance frontiers in science and engineering and increase global prosperity. Keeping these machines in the hands of democracies could help sustain this march of progress and prosperity for decades to come. "

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Petrolicious88

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm also shocked to know , But I think the core tech is manufactured in Sweden or Finland.

From Raphael (pakistan defense forum)

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Australia is shocked – shocked – to discover that its main supplier of telecom equipment, Ericsson, depends on Chinese equipment from Panda Electronics, a Nanjing-based manufacturer that appears on the Pentagon’s latest list of Chinese companies linked to the People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

The supposedly incendiary revelation, by now widely
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the Australian
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, came as the US Defense Department named Panda as being "owned by, controlled by or affiliated with China's government, military or defense industries.”

Panda Electronics, it turns, has a joint venture in China with Swedish giant Ericsson, a major supplier of equipment used by Australian telecom network providers Telstra and Optus. Those tie-ups means Panda, by at least one degree of separation, is and will be involved with Australia’s pending 5G rollout.
Oh man. How did the Australians not know this before. This is a pretty embarrassing
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Brookings Institution's view on China's lithography prospects are bleak:

" China has virtually no lithography experience or industry. Any Chinese firm trying to develop EUV lithography would have to start from scratch. It would have to close the gap with ASML’s billions of dollars, decades of experience, and the accumulated experience and tacit knowledge of their tens of thousands of employees. And it would have to succeed where experienced, billion-dollar companies failed [note: Probably referring to Nikon]. There is little chance a Chinese company will make an EUV lithography machine in the foreseeable future.

...the United States, the Netherlands, and Japan should impose strict multilateral export controls on the manufacturing equipment—including EUV lithography machines—needed to produce advanced chips. These three countries monopolize chip manufacturing equipment chokepoints with technical barriers to entry similar to that posed by EUV lithography. Targeted export controls will maintain China’s dependence on imports for advanced chips.

In this respect, EUV machines are even more than technological marvels: they offer important avenues for progress. By advancing computer chip technology, they advance frontiers in science and engineering and increase global prosperity. Keeping these machines in the hands of democracies could help sustain this march of progress and prosperity for decades to come. "

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If memory serves haven’t the brookings institute had bleak outlook, at one point or another, about the following...

China economic development, said multiple times about the imminent collapse

China jet engine development, said have to rely on Russians, will not be able to develop indigenous engines for a long time

China advanced electronics development

China space program, said will not have manned space flight without co-op opportunity with ISS

China missile tech development, said ASBM and hypersonic not going to happen

China high speed rail development

China ship building industry

China military and civilian drone development

China aircraft carrier program, said they will never develop one I think, don’t remember the details.

Three gorges dam, will collapses multiple times

China food production capabilities, in conjunction with pollution problem said China will have problems feeding itself

China pollution problems

China renewable energy sector, now the biggest in the world with the most KWH

China internet and software related development

I don’t know if all are from brookings but definitely from one US think tank or another and I don’t have the time to chase down all the reports and what was said.
I am sure they have a point but the thing with tech is that once the principle is understood, it only take time, money, motivation and a bit of trail and error to reinvent the wheel and necessity is the mother of all inventions, so I have my eyes trained on carbon nanotubes tbh
 

ansy1968

Senior Member
Registered Member
Brookings Institution's view on China's lithography prospects are bleak:

" China has virtually no lithography experience or industry. Any Chinese firm trying to develop EUV lithography would have to start from scratch. It would have to close the gap with ASML’s billions of dollars, decades of experience, and the accumulated experience and tacit knowledge of their tens of thousands of employees. And it would have to succeed where experienced, billion-dollar companies failed [note: Probably referring to Nikon]. There is little chance a Chinese company will make an EUV lithography machine in the foreseeable future.

...the United States, the Netherlands, and Japan should impose strict multilateral export controls on the manufacturing equipment—including EUV lithography machines—needed to produce advanced chips. These three countries monopolize chip manufacturing equipment chokepoints with technical barriers to entry similar to that posed by EUV lithography. Targeted export controls will maintain China’s dependence on imports for advanced chips.

In this respect, EUV machines are even more than technological marvels: they offer important avenues for progress. By advancing computer chip technology, they advance frontiers in science and engineering and increase global prosperity. Keeping these machines in the hands of democracies could help sustain this march of progress and prosperity for decades to come. "

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Hi gadgetcool5

quote from JustAnotherPerson (PAKISTAN DEFENSE FORUM) on the article.

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a course a lawyer for Yale school of law who dont understand what he talking about.
This is what an expert in lithography has to say about it.
“I assume that we see only part of what China is doing. It’s like an iceberg, most is hidden from view. Their academicians publish papers on EUV technology, but the work that I have seen has been mostly theoretical. I assume that there is some underlying hardware,” said Harry Levinson, principal at HJL Lithography.
 

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