Ladakh Flash Point

siegecrossbow · Jul 24, 2021

ougoah said:
You see how it is? The Jai Hinds (of which I personally would refrain from classifying you as) always start pretending to be all kind and decent. They must hear what they want to hear. You must agree with their delusions else suffer the non-stop semantics and insult throwing. It's worthless and reality doesn't care for this sort of stuff. They entertain themselves with this level of intelligence and degeneracy over at bharat xyz forums but any fair minded person can visit these areas and judge for themselves who the truly deluded ones are and just how far buried in the sand they are.

The problem is this behaviour results in an overall worsening of the discussion as hot headed people join in with the insults. Very conducive to nothing productive.

Moderators should clean it up and pour water on the flames so that more productive and interesting posts can be given attention @siegecrossbow. Yet another troll is here to feel vindicated and hear what he wants to hear. Failed get people here to say "Yes india is super and china sucks and everything indians say about china is true" and so he is angry and bitter. Please take care of the trash that's wasting member's time and polluting this thread.

He hasn’t technically broken any rules. If I banned people just because I don't like something they post then @Kakyan would be gone and @berserk would not have lasted as long as he does. Being passive aggressive doesn't break any forum rules. Keep me posted though if he starts hurling invectives like "cockroach eaters, bat soup drinkers, ragheads, muskies, and chinks" around. Those are offences that would result in bans.

twineedle · Jul 24, 2021

siegecrossbow said:
He hasn’t technically broken any rules. If I banned people just because I don't like something they post then @Kakyan would be gone and @berserk would not have lasted as long as he does. Being passive aggressive doesn't break any forum rules. Keep me posted though if he starts hurling invectives like "cockroach eaters, bat soup drinkers, ragheads, muskies, and chinks" around. Those are offences that would result in bans.

I do appreciate how the rules are equally applied to all, and only the most serious of offences are met with bans.

Xizor · Jul 24, 2021

ougoah said:
I suspect CCP leaders and military decision makers have concluded one of the following:

1. Very little to no chance of war possibly with quiet Indian verification of this.
2. There is a great or decent chance of war

1. is ideal and means some people can talk all they want about it and make up as much nonsense as they please. Things carry on as they are.

2. means their planning involves almost entirely relying on land forces with a very limited PLAAF support and limited PLAAF capability being offered to this theatre presumably because it is much more important to keep high end assets positioned in the east where the real capability is and is coming from in terms of presenting as a threat to China. This would also mean that the PLA leaders think such a war is winnable with just cyberwarfare + electronic warfare + strategic missiles + artillery^artillery spamming and then land forces. This means sacrificing more lives to preserve equipment and technology for higher end threats. The Indians may want to cooperate with the US in some two front attack so this line of preparation is more sensible than diverting assets west. Plus India is SRBM and MRBM ranged rather than US and US bases in Asia which are either IRBM or ICBM ranged. They luckily don't overlap and so we see this force structure and deployment pattern.

In the 1962 war defeat, there was and still is lament in the Indian forums about India not using its Air Force and that things could've been different if it weren't.

I think they would readily employ air Force for any future confrontation with China.

ougoah · Jul 24, 2021

siegecrossbow said:
He hasn’t technically broken any rules. If I banned people just because I don't like something they post then @Kakyan would be gone and @berserk would not have lasted as long as he does. Being passive aggressive doesn't break any forum rules. Keep me posted though if he starts hurling invectives like "cockroach eaters, bat soup drinkers, ragheads, muskies, and chinks" around. Those are offences that would result in bans.

I wasn't calling for bans sorry if misunderstood. I meant there are a few pages of ridiculous stuff and stuff that's been covered and discussed many times in this thread. But anyway it's not my call to say what should be done to clean the thread. It just seems long enoguh as it is and impossible to find the worthwhile material visited in the past and pages of that sort of discussion.

Xizor · Jul 24, 2021

@ougoah In a Ladakh crisis, it is to be expected that US would support India materially and equipment wise. The US SF would be cooperating with India and sharing satellite information and intelligence.

But beyond that, I don't think US would have troops on ground or even Air Support. The US Navy 3rd fleet will likely moor in the Bay of Bengal sea. While Indian Navy will move to the Arabian sea.

ougoah · Jul 24, 2021

Xsizor said:
In the 1962 war defeat, there was and still is lament in the Indian forums about India not using its Air Force and that things could've been different if it weren't.

I think they would readily employ air Force for any future confrontation with China.

The airforce element is India's edge here. Along with more men they can bring to the frontline. China's strength here is only with artillery and missiles they can launch at Indian bases and airfields with India not yet having real means of intercepting. Overall if it's just western theatre vs IA and IAF and acting defensively, China has very little chance at being able to repel an Indian invasion up to at least Aksai Chin covered.

Therefore I'm assuming planners know there will be no war or they know that no war is winnable using conventional means unless they divert assets away from the east. Since that is out of the question, Indian invasion would only be met with using some asymmetric counters to address gap in troop numbers and equipment like aircraft positioned in this region. Artillery can't take care of 200,000 men moving in with vehicles and air support. PLAAF in that region and air defenses can only buy some time. So the PLA would almost certainly be forced to take offensive attacks on Indian bases and airfields to remove that threat. Without having confidence in being able to achieve the two or three lines of how the situation can develop, we would have seen much more dramatic addition of equipment to western theatre, particularly for the PLAAF there.

Xizor · Jul 24, 2021

ougoah said:
The airforce element is India's edge here. Along with more men they can bring to the frontline. China's strength here is only with artillery and missiles they can launch at Indian bases and airfields with India not yet having real means of intercepting. Overall if it's just western theatre vs IA and IAF and acting defensively, China has very little chance at being able to repel an Indian invasion up to at least Aksai Chin covered.

Therefore I'm assuming planners know there will be no war or they know that no war is winnable using conventional means unless they divert assets away from the east. Since that is out of the question, Indian invasion would only be met with using some asymmetric counters to address gap in troop numbers and equipment like aircraft positioned in this region. Artillery can't take care of 200,000 men moving in with vehicles and air support. PLAAF in that region and air defenses can only buy some time. So the PLA would almost certainly be forced to take offensive attacks on Indian bases and airfields to remove that threat. Without having confidence in being able to achieve the two or three lines of how the situation can develop, we would have seen much more dramatic addition of equipment to western theatre, particularly for the PLAAF there.

The 200,000 men can't move in just like in Iraq or France. This would be like Hannibal* crossing the Alps many times over - they'd have to move equipments and meterial through the Himalayan mountains.

Not even the US or any other country have the chops to properly invade and secure Tibet from the South. Destroying the Chinese forward positions at the edges of Tibet is achievable. But Any advance beyond is not possible.

The furthest I think India could gain out of Ladakh war - if all things go well for them and China had bad evens - is the capture of Aksai Chin ( momentarily, If they can't secure it and if China decides to escalate later)

Kaine · Jul 24, 2021

ougoah said:
Artillery can't take care of 200,000 men moving in with vehicles and air support. PLAAF in that region and air defenses can only buy some time.

I have a question. Are we sure that India has the necessary supplies and logistics available in order to perform such an operation?

We all know these big populated countries which have huge armies but when the time comes to actually deploying them in combat and performing combat operations, the wheels come off. Does India has the necessary logistic network and capacity to support such a huge operation in the border areas?

I personally doubt it. India for all I care can send 1 million or 2 million men at the border. If their logistics are not up to par the only thing they will manage is accelerating their downfall.

Xizor · Jul 24, 2021

Kaine said:
I have a question. Are we sure that India has the necessary supplies and logistics available in order to perform such an operation?

We all know these big populated countries which have huge armies but when the time comes to actually deploying them in combat and performing combat operations, the wheels come off. Does India has the necessary logistic network and capacity to support such a huge operation in the border areas?

I personally doubt it. India for all I care can send 1 million or 2 million men at the border. If their logistics are not up to par the only thing they will manage is accelerating their downfall.

No. That's the thing. Not just India but no country can do something like invading through Himalayas from the South.

India doesn't have the ammunition, logistics, materials and supplies for this.

siegecrossbow · Jul 24, 2021

Xsizor said:
The 200,000 men can't move in just like in Iraq or France. This would be like Hannibal* crossing the Alps many times over - they'd have to move equipments and meterial through the Himalayan mountains.

Not even the US or any other country have the chops to properly invade and secure Tibet from the South. Destroying the Chinese forward positions at the edges of Tibet is achievable. But Any advance beyond is not possible.

The furthest I think India could gain out of Ladakh war - if all things go well for them and China had bad evens - is the capture of Aksai Chin ( momentarily, If they can't secure it and if China decides to escalate later)

The strategic conundrum is that if (and that's a big IF) India attacks and goes for Aksai Chin, Pakistan isn't gonna exactly sit still and leave Kashmir alone.

Ladakh Flash Point

siegecrossbow

General

twineedle

Junior Member

Xizor

Captain

ougoah

Brigadier

Xizor

Captain

ougoah

Brigadier

Xizor

Captain

Kaine

Junior Member

Xizor

Captain

siegecrossbow

General