Ladakh Flash Point

The results of India's tactical victory in South Pangong by preempting PLA near Black Top and occupying Rezang La and Rechin La are quite clear. China went from refusing to budge from Pangong unless India also vacates the fingers to capitulating to India and retreating, restoring Status quo ante as described by Col. S. Dinny. Which was exactly what India had been demanding from day one. So much for China's military victory lol, only China wins by retreating.

twineedle said:

You still haven't provided evidence for any of those claims. I have provided multiple reputable Indian sources which contradict what you are saying.

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Please look back. I have provided evidence. Are you denying that Indian mlitary video showing Indians celebrating a "capture"? In the same time the Chinese government reported on India intruding into China and India's government being silent on something they should and would deny if it wasn't true? Yeah that's as close to 100% evidence as you can get. China officially saying it, India not denying it, Indian military and media showing footage of IA soldiers celebrating a "capture" claimed to be 3 to 5km into east Reqin.

ougoah said:

That is indeed the actual official position but it was reported as if it is captured from China. It does use the word captured after all. That's like PLA saying it "captured" Beijing. Well done boys lol.

And while it is the actual official position and intention, it should be noted that China arrived to the south AFTER the Indians and REACTED to Indians intruding into China's side. So any claim of China wanting to invade the south is so dishonest. What more do I expect though.

How could China have wanted to invade into India in the south of lake if it arrived 6 months after occupying forward positions on Pangong (for the original matter) and only positioned PLA on China's side AFTER india intrudes into china.

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The Indian Army specifically stated that its actions near Black top were in reaction to China. Hence the use of the word "preempted."

The Indian Army also denied crossing its perception of the LAC.

The PLA, however, spent five months complaining that India was occupying territory on its side of the LAC, but couldn't do anything to remove India. So it had no choice but to surrender and restore status quo ante in Pangong as India wanted.

twineedle said:

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Wait where is the evidence China was "racing" India to capture Indian peaks?

Are you honestly going to be this dishonest about it?

You do realise that this is India claiming something they wouldn't know about. Indian media has no information on PLA intentions in the future. It also offered zero evidence. It is pure Indian argument by proclamation - I proclaim, therefore it is true.

I already debunked it you admitted these facts yourself.

1. PLA wasn't even at Black Top and Helmet Top which are EAST of those points India "captured" in August.
2. If PLA had intention to do that, why didn't they do it before August when Indian troops arrived? PLA was all over this region and the confrontations started in ernest in Jan to Feb.
3. Why during these 5 to 6 months did PLA not occupy those Indian peaks if they wanted to? I mean it did occupy F8 to F4 back around April.

So basically we have India claiming China wants to do xyz and I beat them to doing xyz therefore I win. When all the evidence is against india's claims (points 1 to 3) and India has not even a single piece of evidence that PLA was going to invade those Indian peaks. Absolutely comically bad. Surely not all Indians are this stupid right? I know Indians love the argument by proclamation method but this is getting ridiculous.

Let me ask you this. Point out the evidence in your linked article.

twineedle said:

The Indian Army specifically stated that its actions near Black top were in reaction to China. Hence the use of the word "preempted."

The Indian Army also denied crossing its perception of the LAC.

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Yes the Indian army says the Indian army used the Indian armies' superweapon crystal ball to see the future and see the PLA invasion even though PLA was 10s of km away and for 5+ months have not moved in the south and the Indian army figures that the Indian army needs to pre-empt the PLA in this and the Indian army says the Indian army is successful in doing this and achieving objective.

This is literally how it is.

You don't see the comical stupidity?

I suppose when you miss all goals you gotta invent some to score for cheerleaders to have a parade for.

ougoah said:

Yes the Indian army says the Indian army used the Indian armies' superweapon crystal ball to see the future and see the PLA invasion even though PLA was 10s of km away and for 5+ months have not moved in the south and the Indian army figures that the Indian army needs to pre-empt the PLA in this and the Indian army says the Indian army is successful in doing this and achieving objective.

This is literally how it is.

You don't see the comical stupidity?

I suppose when you miss all goals you gotta invent some to score for cheerleaders to have a parade for.

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There is this thing called military intel.

Extra Extra! Indian army thinks PLA might occupy Indian peaks so pre-empted "capture" of India's own peaks. It beat PLA to its own peaks. PLA didn't even move! Read all about how india is great powa.

twineedle said:

There is this thing called military intel.

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Yes and that military intel didn't notice that PLA wasn't at that point even present on Black Top and Helmet Top? Somehow that was imminent PLA invasion of India's mountain peaks kilometers away from even Black Top and Helmet Top? Somehow PLA's plan to invade into India resulted in India's actual invasion into China?

Good intel. From the same intel that claims Pakistani pigeons are armed and spying? The same one that confused stars and planets for Chinese drones? The same one that claims it could use MKI radar to detect and ID D) J-20 from over 100km away even though an MKI radar would have trouble detecting a J-10 sized target from 100km away?

ougoah said:

Yes and that military intel didn't notice that PLA wasn't at that point even present on Black Top and Helmet Top? Somehow that was imminent PLA invasion of India's mountain peaks kilometers away from even Black Top and Helmet Top? Somehow PLA's plan to invade into India resulted in India's actual invasion into China?

Good intel. From the same intel that claims Pakistani pigeons are armed and spying? The same one that confused stars and planets for Chinese drones? The same one that claims it could use MKI radar to detect and ID D) J-20 from over 100km away even though an MKI radar would have trouble detecting a J-10 sized target from 100km away?

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China had occupied black and helmet top in August. Those have been on China's side since 62

Glad you are admitting that the peaks India had occupied are within China's perception of the LAC. India occupied that Chinese territory for five months and China could not do anything about it, which is why it capitulated to India in Pangong Tso.

So yes, following your logic, India did successfully invade China.

It's another he said she said. India has taken the liberty to claim for China what China intended to do even though none of the evidence supports the Indian claims and all the evidence proves beyond reasonable doubt that China did not wish to stoke up south of lake tensions. But india did intrude into China's side on the south. The proposed reason was to capture land to bargain with for northern sector. That Indian mission failed because they didn't realise that they needed to hold onto the east reqin land they actually captured and that DEW exist and can be used for A2AD.