Ladakh Flash Point

twineedle said:

But I have shown you some credible Indian media quoting Indian Army sources, which you discounted because they went against your narrative in favor of unverified tweets

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Quoting Indian army sources that claim they never went in reqin on China's side of LAC? I looked through your links and did not come across this. Why does India let its media and random military people talk for it. It has plausible deniability. Indian government has never refuted China's accusation that Indian troops intruded into China's side. To me this is proof enough because it is an official statement and a missing official denial/challenge. If I was accused of breaking into my neighbour's house, I would issue a formal statement denying it yet India gov has not.

Please also shown me where Indian military has issued this statement. I would like to know how formal/official that statement was, who it was made by (to evaluate), and exactly what the words were verbatim. I have a feeling this isn't the case since I recall back in August and Sep last year that the online disucssions never mentioned this and continued playing along with the "India has managed to capture Chinese land" until it was clear that nothing is coming out of it and they were indeed driven out or left.

"While China has accused India of crossing the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the Indian Army has denied this."

"But, the Indian delegation maintained that the heights are on the Indian side of the LAC, the sources added."

Also, the viral video that is supposedly evidence is actually an old video not from the recent skirmish.

twineedle said:

Yet whenever neutral sources such as satellite imagery debunk your preferred narrative, you conveniently discredit them.

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Feel free to present your satellite imagery and narrative.

You have been corrected multiple times. And you have been left wanting for retorts too.

The reality is of a China that made gains over India as was the conclusion seeing the many "imagery" including yours.

twineedle said:

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"While China has accused India of crossing the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the Indian Army has denied this."

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"Indian Army’s occupation of three hilltops claimed by Chinese on the south bank of Pangong Lake is what has riled up China after People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops enhanced deployment close to India’s Thakung base and made attempts to change status quo.

While China has accused India of crossing the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the Indian Army has denied this."

Which three hilltops is it referring to? I'm assuming those Indian ones magar gurung so on. China was riled up by east reqin intrusion (assumed to be different to this and separated by at least going east of Black and Helmet Tops) and by India opening up the southern front. If you want to interpret Indian moves onto Indian peaks as riling up China, it is only in the sense that China did not want the southern front opened up. Instead it is the intrusion east of Black Top and Helmet that riled China up because it is considered China proper and losing that to the Indians would indeed be a piece of bargaining power for India. India holding onto those Indian peaks is not. India would not "capture" its own peaks to negotiate with China.

India occupying those western ones (map below) is not going to rile China up any more than India occupying F3 and ridges north of F4 when PLA was on the edge of F4. These western points are west of PLA positions at their most forward deployment.



Outside of India's "capturing" of these points which btw are themselves on the absolute edge of the Chinese claim line, it is the indian intrusion much further east (east of Chinese peaks) that is the main source of complaint and what the CCP reported on. India taking these peaks is like India taking F3. China's preference of LAC in the south runs through the western red line while the Indian preference of it runs through the eastern one. These peaks are not on China's side.

The most recent evidences concocted by the two man tag team Kakyan and twineedle is for the Galwan Valley and the positions of camps.

I wonder what's their agenda? Is it to prove that India is closer to the current LAC than China?

Or is it to assert that there is no disengagement and buffer zone?



I don't know if the Indian camps have shifted. But this is what I understood of Chinese position as pointed out by kakyan

Satellite imagery confirms that PLA has moved back from Hot Springs.

Xsizor said:

The most recent evidences concocted by the two man tag team Kakyan and twineedle is for the Galwan Valley and the positions of camps.

I wonder what's their agenda? Is it to prove that India is closer to the current LAC than China?

Or is it to assert that there is no disengagement and buffer zone?

View attachment 73903

I don't know if the Indian camps have shifted. But this is what I understood of Chinese position as pointed out by kakyan

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That map is incorrect

Indian army has denied the claim that these mountain peaks are on China's side... except this isn't the issue China was referring to. These peaks are clearly on India's side like I keep saying. India captured India's own territory. China's reporting of India crossing LAC was another intrusion, regarded by some as india pulling off what some of its military men suggested - to capture Chinese land to bargain with. Anyway can see those peaks "captured" by India is not withing the "disputed" stretch just south of lake.

BTW this article just makes the claim that "Indian army denies this" without properly specifying what "this" is... umm yes Indian army is well within its rights to claim that IA "capture" of magar, gurung etc are not crossing China's perception of LAC. This is clear to India as well as China. China's claim of crossing is another incident where IA crossed allegedly (and here it is all Indian sources and claims backed by CCP official statement that india has intruded) beyond east of Black and Helmet Top.

Separate things. Looks like the indian army response (assuming that media piece is even accurate since no quotes and no detail on who) is addressing the Indian side peaks. Which is clearly not what China is referring to when it says crossed LAC. We can all see that isn't east of the LAC.