J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[plawolf]

here's an extract from the news posted in the JF-17 thread.


So the J-10 will fly in Pakistan by this year end while for the FC-20 which is referred to as "these aircraft after improving them further would be delivered to PAF in 2014-15" probably refers to the Super-10 or J10B.

Unlikely. The J10 is probably only available because the 'Super-10' is nearly ready for the PLAAF.

The PAF would be lucky to get the J10 at all, and if they do get it, it will almost certainly be an export version with all sensitive PLAAF gear stripped out and replaced.

 

[mean_bird]

Unlikely. The J10 is probably only available because the 'Super-10' is nearly ready for the PLAAF.

That's not what this news says. It clearly mentions that the current J-10 does not fulfill PAF requirement and therefore an improved version will be made for PAF. This is also been said by the PAF before.
And in this news (ceremony where this was stated), both the PAF chief as well as the President of CAC and the Chinese ambassador to pakistan was present. So its not just some vague rumor.

The PAF would be lucky to get the J10 at all, and if they do get it, it will almost certainly be an export version with all sensitive PLAAF gear stripped out and replaced.

I don't want to derail this thread but its China that first offered J-10 to Pakistan and I believe it has also been offered to another country (malaysia?). You're sounding as if the J-10 is some F-22 grade stuff that cannot be taken out of China. Besides, all rumors/informed guys indicate PAF might actually go for western radar and equipment so the question may not even arise.

Anyway, neither you nor I nor anyone else on this forum will decide what J-10 will be exported and what things won't. I prefer to talk about the plane itself rather than the politics.

The most interested thing for me is
1- what exactly would be the changes to FC-20 given that it will take so long to improve it?

2 - If PAF is getting J-10 this year, is it going to use the WS-10A engine or the Russian one.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Of course literally it's all information we've heard before and the status quo remains.

It much like the Chinese aircraft carrier story. Right now we're seeing a lot of stories on the wire that China is about to build an aircraft carrier like it's breaking news and yet it's not. They're just regurgitating old news as new which questions the credibility of it in the first place.

 

[PrOeLiTeZ]

here's an extract from the news posted in the JF-17 thread.


So the J-10 will fly in Pakistan by this year end while for the FC-20 which is referred to as "these aircraft after improving them further would be delivered to PAF in 2014-15" probably refers to the Super-10 or J10B.

China wont deliver anything that is more superior to its own inventory or its existing inventory fighters to any nation, unless they have better ones entering service. So Pakistan J-10 variant won't be J-10 Top variant being delivered to Pakistan, China will get the best J-10 model, while Pakistan gets the model before this one. Otherwise ones with different weapons suite and avionics.

 

[mean_bird]

China wont deliver anything that is more superior to its own inventory or its existing inventory fighters to any nation, unless they have better ones entering service. So Pakistan J-10 variant won't be J-10 Top variant being delivered to Pakistan, China will get the best J-10 model, while Pakistan gets the model before this one. Otherwise ones with different weapons suite and avionics.

Anyway, neither you nor I nor anyone else on this forum will decide what J-10 will be exported and what things won't. I prefer to talk about the plane itself rather than the politics.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

The current J-10 does not really offer anything to the PAF that isn't already provided by the JF-17. For the same reason you see the PLAAF declining the FC-1. I believe the PAF is really looking for a top of the line fighter that will serve the same role the F-22 does in the USAF. Such a fighter will have to possess at least some next-gen features such as AESA, stealth futures, supercruise, etc. China has a lot of room to expand with the J-10, and you may see a whole family of aircraft similar to what you have today with the Flanker. While the PAF may require something better than the current top variants in the PLAAF, it can very well be that by 2014 China will have much more advanced variants out.

 

[plawolf]

That's not what this news says...

I'm sure you are not totally unfamiliarly with the concept of politicians or manufacturers putting a positive spin on things.

CAC might be desperate to sell the J10, that does not mean the PLAAF is going to let them. Certainly not unless CAC can show that selling the J10 will not compromise PLAAF J10s.

The J10 might not be F22 grade, but it is the equivalent of the F22 for the PLAAF.

As for internet rumors, well forgive me, but those same informed guys were saying the same thing about western radars in JF17s.

The PLAAF has a pretty clear and consistent policy when it comes to exporting military equipment, and I will base my view on that policy unless you can demonstrate that the PLAAF has changed it.

 

[unknauthr]

The current J-10 does not really offer anything to the PAF that isn't already provided by the JF-17.

There are a number of major differences between China selling Pakistan the J-10, and selling them the JF-17. The PLAAF is in the process of actively fielding the J-10, and any shipments to Pakistan would have to cut into the delivery schedule for the PLAAF. This is not true of the JF-17 - which the PLAAF appears to be in no hurry to introduce into its own order of battle. Fundamentally, the JF-17 is a short range, light fighter - better suited for the air defense role than for longer range, offensive operations. Adding the J-10 to Pakistan's inventory would greatly enhance their offensive capability to dominate Indian air space. The PLAAF will not part with the J-10 lightly.

That does not mean that the J-10 will not be supplied to Pakistan. There is a long history of cooperation between the two nations, and this will ultimately be a political decision, not merely a military one. No one should be under any illusions, however, regarding how significant such an export would be. On the one hand, China wants to support its friends and allies, and bolster the reputation of China's aerospace industry as well. On the other hand, exporting the J-10 means that many details surrounding the airplane's performance will eventually be leaked to the US. This would be a significant undertaking for the PRC to agree to.

 

[Baibar of Jalat]

Unlikely. The J10 is probably only available because the 'Super-10' is nearly ready for the PLAAF.

The PAF would be lucky to get the J10 at all, and if they do get it, it will almost certainly be an export version with all sensitive PLAAF gear stripped out and replaced.

Yes J 10 will be exported soon, thats not up for debate, however what equipment its gonna have in it, is up for debate. Ofcourse equipment would be slightly modified, just in case to prevent whole of PLAAF being compromised, if something negative happens.

Plawolf

CAC might be desperate to sell the J10, that does not mean the PLAAF is going to let them. Certainly not unless CAC can show that selling the J10 will not compromise PLAAF J10s.

This ones tough to repond to because we (or maybe just me) dont know who has the final say, the CCP, PLA, PLAAF or some other organisation.

 

[plawolf]

Yes J 10 will be exported soon, thats not up for debate,

My argument is that that is only the case because there are rumors that a much improved 'super-10' is nearly completion. In addition, if the PLAAF does green-light a J10 sale, it will be a modified J10A, not the new 'super-10'.

A good test to apply to any rumor is to ask 'why'.

China may well release the J10 to them because of the special relationship between the two countries. But there is absolutely no rationale for China to sell the 'super-10' to Pakistan before even its own forces are equipped with it.

No leader is going to sacrifice national security to do an unnecessary favor for another country, no matter how special the relationship. So it doesn't really matter who makes the final call as there is just no reason to release the 'super-10' anytime soon.