J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[challenge]

according to wmf, a new variant designated as J-10M model,design primarly for export.more likely customer can opt for european radar,avionic and weapon system.
BTW, how can you down load youtube video to your DVD RW multimedia recorder? I having problem trying to down load zhuhai airshow video from youtube.com to my DVD RW recorder.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I found out that my realplayer download I installed on my computer will pop-up a small window when I move my cursor onto the video on youtube and others, but not all, giving me the option to download the video. Realplayer turns it into a flv file. I got a free flv file converter online that turned it into an avi file. From there I believe most video burning programs will transfer it to a DVD. But I found out that my new blu-ray player won't play anything that I downloaded from the internet. Not sure why. BTW the quality isn't that great.

 

[mean_bird]

saw a posting on pakdef about Pakistan getting J-10 this year. Not too surprising I suppose with the entire Pakistan/Indian situation getting really serious now. Although the part that I don't get is China allowing non-Chinese suppliers of radar going on J-10, I personally don't think that will happen, but we will see. Frankly, with Pakistani economy tanking and only China offering soft loans, China should be holding all the cards here.

True if China wills, it could probably force the PAF to buy all Chinese material on it. However, apart from the financial aspect (which is very important in any deal regardless of friendship, etc) won't be the only factor. Strategic interest, mutual regard and long-term relationship would also come to play.

I don't see why China would like to choke something down PAF's throat if they aren't willing just because they have the upper bargaining hand ....but that's to assume that PAF are looking for western avionics in the first place which hasn't been confirmed yet.

We certainly do not know at this stage whether they will be western or Chinese avionics and what China has to offer. Maybe the best Chinese stuff isn't on offer and the next best one doesn't fulfill PAF's requirement.

Btw, anyone can confirm this news from the Chinese side?

 

[SteelBird]

I found out that my realplayer download I installed on my computer will pop-up a small window when I move my cursor onto the video on youtube and others, but not all, giving me the option to download the video. Realplayer turns it into a flv file. I got a free flv file converter online that turned it into an avi file. From there I believe most video burning programs will transfer it to a DVD. But I found out that my new blu-ray player won't play anything that I downloaded from the internet. Not sure why. BTW the quality isn't that great.

Thanks for sharing this information. I also download a free version of RealPlayer. It's great!

 

[Munir]

True if China wills, it could probably force the PAF to buy all Chinese material on it. However, apart from the financial aspect (which is very important in any deal regardless of friendship, etc) won't be the only factor. Strategic interest, mutual regard and long-term relationship would also come to play.

I don't see why China would like to choke something down PAF's throat if they aren't willing just because they have the upper bargaining hand ....but that's to assume that PAF are looking for western avionics in the first place which hasn't been confirmed yet.

We certainly do not know at this stage whether they will be western or Chinese avionics and what China has to offer. Maybe the best Chinese stuff isn't on offer and the next best one doesn't fulfill PAF's requirement.

Btw, anyone can confirm this news from the Chinese side?

The J10 is not forced. Neither will anything be forced. You paid. You will deliver. Like JF17 (as J6/J7) it will have western parts. It is in your intrest that PAF gets your products. And again the usual topic about not the best parts offered... Baseless. What cards were in China hands when PAF got J6? And then J7? Or A5? Pakistani defence is more then just Chinese planes. If you understand that Pakistan and China are more then buss.partners then you might understand that it is more then a praise for China that it delivers without asking questions. Pakistan is everytime the first customer. Starting the usual negative pointing is hardly based on facts. We have heard about JF17... Now it is about J10...

 

[GreenestGDP]

The wise PRC - PLA central leadership always values the Everlasting Friendship between PRC and Pakistan which always trump any financial gain from delivering slightly inferior J-10 fighter crafts to PAF.

If any conflict arises between Pakistan and India, PRC - PLA central leadership would like nothing else but witnessing the J-10s perform brilliantly in crushing the Indian military forces. Thus, the sinister suggestions of PRC - PLA central leadership is forcing Pakistan in buying flawed PRC products just because PRC is strong is absolutely bogus.

Again, this is the "Divide and Conquer" tactic.

GreenestGDP, welcome to the forum. Judging by your post you have not read the forum rules. Follow the link below. Be sure you read the rules. This is a heavily moderated forum.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=20

bd popeye super moderator

 

[tphuang]

True if China wills, it could probably force the PAF to buy all Chinese material on it. However, apart from the financial aspect (which is very important in any deal regardless of friendship, etc) won't be the only factor. Strategic interest, mutual regard and long-term relationship would also come to play.

I don't see why China would like to choke something down PAF's throat if they aren't willing just because they have the upper bargaining hand ....but that's to assume that PAF are looking for western avionics in the first place which hasn't been confirmed yet.

We certainly do not know at this stage whether they will be western or Chinese avionics and what China has to offer. Maybe the best Chinese stuff isn't on offer and the next best one doesn't fulfill PAF's requirement.

Btw, anyone can confirm this news from the Chinese side?

That's not what I'm concerned about, the issue is you don't want other people to put stuff in your most prized possession, no matter how close you are. I doubt the Europeans would feel comfortable about letting the integration work done in China by CAC.

The J10 is not forced. Neither will anything be forced. You paid. You will deliver. Like JF17 (as J6/J7) it will have western parts. It is in your intrest that PAF gets your products. And again the usual topic about not the best parts offered... Baseless. What cards were in China hands when PAF got J6? And then J7? Or A5? Pakistani defence is more then just Chinese planes. If you understand that Pakistan and China are more then buss.partners then you might understand that it is more then a praise for China that it delivers without asking questions. Pakistan is everytime the first customer. Starting the usual negative pointing is hardly based on facts. We have heard about JF17... Now it is about J10...

you don't need to get insulted when we have reservations about this. China has no need to sell this plane to Pakistan. China has no need to sell this plane to anyone in fact. It's totally different from JF-17, which was an export plane right from the start.

As for your other options, you are broke, who else are you going to be able to make large purchases from and get the plane on short notice?

The wise PRC - PLA central leadership always values the Everlasting Friendship between PRC and Pakistan which always trump any financial gain from delivering slightly inferior J-10 fighter crafts to PAF.

If any conflict arises between Pakistan and India, PRC - PLA central leadership would like nothing else but witnessing the J-10s perform brilliantly in crushing the Indian military forces. Thus, the sinister suggestions of PRC - PLA central leadership is forcing Pakistan in buying flawed PRC products just because PRC is strong is absolutely bogus.

Again, this is the "Divide and Conquer" tactic.

Every exporter does it for obvious reasons, you don't want another air force to use the same version that you do, because you don't want them to know exactly how your version of the fighter operates. For example, does China want anyone to know the signals used by J-10's radar? Or the exact methods used by EW suite and so on. It's an issue of national security.

 

[bladerunner]

That's not what I'm concerned about, the issue is you don't want other people to put stuff in your most prized possession, no matter how close you are. I doubt the Europeans would feel comfortable about letting the integration work done in China by CAC.


you don't need to get insulted when we have reservations about this. China has no need to sell this plane to Pakistan. China has no need to sell this plane to anyone in fact. It's totally different from JF-17, which was an export plane right from the start.

As for your other options, you are broke, who else are you going to be able to make large purchases from and get the plane on short notice?


Every exporter does it for obvious reasons, you don't want another air force to use the same version that you do, because you don't want them to know exactly how your version of the fighter operates. For example, does China want anyone to know the signals used by J-10's radar? Or the exact methods used by EW suite and so on. It's an issue of national security.

Surely by letting Pakistan use E.U. avionics or weapons suite,will give China a desceet look at something they are unlikey to see

 

[mean_bird]

That's not what I'm concerned about, the issue is you don't want other people to put stuff in your most prized possession, no matter how close you are. I doubt the Europeans would feel comfortable about letting the integration work done in China by CAC.

Every exporter does it for obvious reasons, you don't want another air force to use the same version that you do, because you don't want them to know exactly how your version of the fighter operates. For example, does China want anyone to know the signals used by J-10's radar? Or the exact methods used by EW suite and so on. It's an issue of national security.

I see your point about the Chinese possibly wanting to keep their version of the EW a secret.

However, I don't see why using western Radar/EW would be of any concern to China. The integration can be done at PAC Kamra in Pakistan. No need to let Europeans do it. The same thing happened with the F-7. PAC would already be manufacturing 80% of the avionics for the JF-17s and JF-17 and J-10 have lots of similarities especially in terms of avionics.

We are not talking about fitting a new engine...we are talking about radar, and EW/ECM and possibly some other stuff.

Back to my original question....whats the latest news from the Chinese side about this...especially with regards to the rumored modified version that flew in dec. last?

 

[tphuang]

I see your point about the Chinese possibly wanting to keep their version of the EW a secret.

However, I don't see why using western Radar/EW would be of any concern to China. The integration can be done at PAC Kamra in Pakistan. No need to let Europeans do it. The same thing happened with the F-7. PAC would already be manufacturing 80% of the avionics for the JF-17s and JF-17 and J-10 have lots of similarities especially in terms of avionics.

We are not talking about fitting a new engine...we are talking about radar, and EW/ECM and possibly some other stuff.

Back to my original question....whats the latest news from the Chinese side about this...especially with regards to the rumored modified version that flew in dec. last?

It's just not possible for Pakistan to get the modified version based on the time frame they are talking about. It will take until at least late 2010 for the production on J-10B to start if we go by the flight test timeframe of J-11B and JF-17 04. As for fitting European avionics/EW suite, that's exactly the point, China probably wouldn't want Pakistan to do it. Unlike in JF-17's case, Pakistan doesn't have ToT for J-10.