Crisis in the Ukraine


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Don't misunderstand me, I support knocking Russia down and make sure it's always weak. That should have been done after the fall of the Soviet Union, and the US should have overlooked Tiananmen and made China partners in the deed. But, there's no political will in the West to do that now, and such things can't be done in half measures. We missed a golden opportunity to neuter Russia.

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what, an American suggesting ... were you referring to
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Blackstone?
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
thank you for the confirmation ... by suggesting that massacre should have been "overlooked" by the US, you ... brought Sino Defence Forum to higher level, I guess
It's harsh to suggest overlooking or even supporting some heinous acts in the name of national interest, but that's exactly how nations should act. It's a slippery slope, to be sure, but leaders are elected/elevated to navigate slippery slopes, and national interest is king.
 

t2contra

Major
Nope, comments weren't intended as a personal attack, but an editorial.
Your comments are your comments and not an editorial. No need to be fanciful. You yourself are guilty of walking "around the edges".


I said it was a cheap shot because you linked some pictures of atrocities to "true democracy." Reasonable people can agree, or not.

If you have criticisms of US and NATO then state them plainly, no need walk around the edges. Come out with it. Frankly, I agree with the notion NATO broke its promise to Russia and expanded right up to its front door. Latvia and Lithuania were bad enough, but Ukraine was the straw that broke the camel's back. Putin acted like any responsible Russian autocrat would to secure Russia's front door and push back NATO.
He is entitled to his way of putting his message across and the way he did was through satire. Satire follows politics. I am totally comfortable with it as it highlights the contrast unlike your drone on engines, the issue of which has been discussed by others at length and is no longer a surprise.
 

Dannhill

Junior Member
Putin is so evil he keeps trying to frame peace loving democratic Ukraine for acts committed by Putin's 30,000 paratroopers and 1,000 T-90 tanks!!

Strong proof Right Sector, National Guard linked to mass graves near Donetsk – Moscow

There is irrefutable evidence that the National Guard and ultra-nationalist Right Sector fighters are responsible for the murder of people recently discovered in mass burial sites near Donetsk, eastern Ukraine said Russia’s Investigative Committee.

“For those who have doubts regarding who’s responsible for these murders, the Investigative Committee has irrefutable evidence - witness accounts and appropriate examinations – that directly indicates that this crime was committed by fighters from the National Guard and Right Sector,” the committee’s head Vladimir Markin in a statement on Wednesday.

The mass graves discovered in September near the city of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine “are further eloquent testimony to the atrocities of the Ukrainian nationalists,” Markin said, adding that “all of the victims were tortured before their murder."

The murders were described in detail in the testimony of a soldier from the ‘Dnepr’ battalion, Sergey Litvinov, detained in a Russian hospital as a civilian after he fled Ukraine, Markin said. Currently Litvinov is under arrest and is to be transferred to Moscow for further questioning, he added.

Litvinov “personally killed civilians not involved in the military conflict, including women and children residents of the villages Melovoye, Shiroky, Makarovo and Kamushnoye, guided by anonymous denunciations,” Markin said, quoting the soldier’s testimony.

“What is more interesting that this fighter received a money reward for the killings from his leadership sponsored by Igor Kolomoysky,” Markin said, referring the Kiev-appointed Dnepropetrovsk governor and prominent oligarch.

“We know the names of many of the commanders of military units, the militants of the Right Sector and the National Guard, who carry out criminal orders of the military and political leadership of Ukraine,” Markin said, adding that all of them will sooner or later have to answer “not only before the law, but also to their own conscience.”

READ MORE:‘Taped hands, gun wounds’: RT witnesses exhumation of mass graves in E. Ukraine

In the Wednesday statement the spokesman of the Investigative Committee stressed that all information and evidence of the crimes is provided by direct witnesses, primarily refugees who fled the region of military operations.

There are over 300,000 refugees who fled to Russia, according to Markin. Over 60,000 were questioned and 12,000 of them were confirmed to be victims, he added.

“In addition to eyewitness accounts, many victims have provided evidence to the Russian Investigative Committee and evidence in the form of soil samples, genetic material. These samples were thoroughly examined, confirming the testimony of witnesses and victims themselves.”

Markin slammed Ukraine’s General Prosecutor’s Office for failing to carry out its own investigation.

“What prevented and is preventing them now from conducting their own investigation into the massacres of the civilian population and to try to protect the innocent population of Donbass instead of making hysterical statements about the alleged ‘interference’ in the affairs of a sovereign republic?” he questioned.

The discovery of the graves was made on September 23 by self-defense forces, who were responding to information given to them by locals, who said that they had been dug by Ukrainian government forces. The OSCE confirmed the finding on September 25 and reported its concerns to the European Union.

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Dannhill

Junior Member
Very obvious he hasn't been reading the more reliable alternate media sites for his info on what is happening in east Ukraine.

So of course he doesn't understand what are "trophys" that these separatists are so happily collecting.

Sorry I have to giggle madly for a while.

There are many stories, accompagnied by photographs, of such wonderful toys being captured from Ukie forces trapped in a cauldron.
 

Dannhill

Junior Member
Would you guys consider this a funny matter? I thought it was quite funny but I have a terrible sense of gutter humour. Something new happens when a parliamentarian proudly claims that there is no law in his own country so he can do whatever he wants.

And US spend US$5 billion for this.
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‘Moron!’ Notorious radical Ukrainian MP defies, threatens interior minister

The leader of Ukraine's Radical Party, Oleg Lyashko, lashed out at the country’s interior minister on Wednesday, calling him a “moron.” He justified the actions of radicals who recently beat up several MPs, adding that “no law is valid” in Ukraine.

In a heated squabble on Facebook, Lyashko slammed Interior Minister Arsen Avakov for his criticism of the recent violence against MPs from the Party of Regions.

On Tuesday, radical supporters of Lyashko beat up two MPs. Nestor Schufrich received a concussion, while Viktor Pilipishin was thrown in a trash can.

READ MORE: ‘Over my dead body’: Defiant Ukrainian MP beaten by nationalist mob (VIDEO)

Avakov urged the radicals to calm down, stating that otherwise “Europe will turn away from our victorious revolution.”

In response, Lyashko called him a “moron” and threatened to “dump him like trash” too.

“Today Ukrainian patriots are lustrating ‘regionals’ [members of the Party of Regions] through a landfill, and tomorrow [they] will throw in a landfill Avakov and others like him, who have forgotten what Maidan was standing for after taking up their posts,” he wrote on his Facebook page.

There have been numerous incidents of violence and “trash dumping” of parliament members following the adoption of the so-called lustration bill in September, which bans the closest allies of Ukraine’s deposed President Yanukovich from politics. The bill is yet to be signed by President Petro Poroshenko. The lustration of government authorities was one of the key demands of the Maidan protesters.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s attorney general denounced the lustration bill as unconstitutional on Tuesday, saying it counters international norms.

READ MORE: Protesters dump Ukrainian deputy in rubbish bin (PHOTO, VIDEO)

The Wednesday comments are not the first of their kind to be made by Lyashko.

The former presidential hopeful became notorious following the abductions of regional MPs over their opposition to the coup-imposed government in Kiev. He recorded the abductions on video and posted them online, praising them. In one of the videos, he threatened to hang a regional MP from the Party of Regions “by the balls.”

Another video shows Lyashko and two armed persons “interrogating” two men, while one of the captives is shown in his underwear with two bleeding wounds.

In August, human rights watchdog Amnesty International called for an investigation into the abuse of power by pro-Kiev “vigilantes” known for their nationalist and anti-Russian views, including Lyashko.

“Oleg Lyashko is supposed to be a lawmaker, but he has taken the law into his own hands,” the watchdog said. “‘Glory to Ukraine, death to the occupiers’ is his rallying cry.”

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