Z-10 thread

[pugachev_diver]

You still dont think the Z-10 is legit?:roll: Look at all the pictures, articles, interviews, dual purpose civilian helicopter projects etc...Inability in the Z-9 its firstly a stopgap and testbed for weapon suites, sensors, electronics, flight systems for the Z-10. Basically a platform testbed. The basic Z-9W had lack of all weather/night capabilities. An initial attack helicopter testing, followed up by the Z-9WA. IRST, low light TV, all weather-day/night capabilities, self defence electronic suite, MFD, reconfigured pylons. So though the platform itself may not be capable attack heli, some of its electronics are well within modern attack heli standards.

Turboshaft engines are serious issue for china, but they can simply acquire them from dual purpose civilian helicopter development and projects. An their is no embargo placed between Canada and China, Canada can export any technology to China, US has no say in it nor can it stop it. It can only put pressure on the Canadian government to cease technology trade with China.:china:

I really really do hope that the WZ-10 is legit, but since today's photoshop tech is becoming more sophisticated, often some pics can even look 100% real.
Speaking on the Canadian issue, it is impossible that Canada will sell stuff China without the approval of US, which currently the deal had already ended. Also it is very hard for civilian engines to be used on military planes, especially on combat helicopters and fighter jets that require sudden bursts to conduct agile maneuvers.
And on the IRST and those related hardwares, I can't say much about them because I'm no expert in this field, but I do know the fact that the size of the lenses reflect its ability. The ones mounted on WZ-9 is probably the smallest compared to all of today's modern attack helicopters (maybe the Indian ones are even smaller, just guessing...).

Because of the reasons as listed above, even with my high anticipation for this craft, I cannot expect much from its performance and combat ability even if it is legit and able to make it to service within the next few years.

 

[Baibar of Jalat]

And on the IRST and those related hardwares, I can't say much about them because I'm no expert in this field, but I do know the fact that the size of the lenses reflect its ability. The ones mounted on WZ-9 is probably the smallest compared to all of today's modern attack helicopters (maybe the Indian ones are even smaller, just guessing...).
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I cant believe people dont relise that militaries are secretive organisations. If you have not seen it, it does not mean theres no ongoing project.

 

[danielchin]

Not sure if this had been posted before, but here's a link to some officially released photos and introduction to its weapon system (two pages, in chinese).

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[danielchin]

Sorry, my mistake, looks like it's a report based on Jane's.

 

[HKSDU]

Actually, the US can, because the Canadian engines are made by an AMERICAN company that has a factory in Canada, and therefore is subject to the same export restrictions as an American-made product. They can levy very heavy penalties to United Technologies Inc, which controls Pratt & Whitney Canada to the tunes of billions of dollars. They already got caught before, and were already fined hundreds of millions of dollars, so I don't think United Technologies Inc is too keen on a repeat performance.

I thought Canadian bought the rights of Pratt & Whitney Canada for exporting technology to foreign nations couple years ago, after the lawsuit they had with the HQ in America. Probs thinking of another firm in Canada that relates to heli technology, but lets see if I can find that article about Canda buying rights to export heli technology. Even with embargo it hasn't stopped Europe nations exporting dual use military-civilian technology to China anyway, it legal to sell them to civilian sector of China, then who knows what happens when it reaches China docks.

 

[HKSDU]

I really really do hope that the WZ-10 is legit, but since today's photoshop tech is becoming more sophisticated, often some pics can even look 100% real.
Speaking on the Canadian issue, it is impossible that Canada will sell stuff China without the approval of US, which currently the deal had already ended. Also it is very hard for civilian engines to be used on military planes, especially on combat helicopters and fighter jets that require sudden bursts to conduct agile maneuvers.
And on the IRST and those related hardwares, I can't say much about them because I'm no expert in this field, but I do know the fact that the size of the lenses reflect its ability. The ones mounted on WZ-9 is probably the smallest compared to all of today's modern attack helicopters (maybe the Indian ones are even smaller, just guessing...).

Because of the reasons as listed above, even with my high anticipation for this craft, I cannot expect much from its performance and combat ability even if it is legit and able to make it to service within the next few years.

I dont have high expectations for the initial batch but I expect it to be decent or comparable to most attack heli there in service. You can still deliver technology under civilian sector, it can be dual purpose use for the military. Who knows what happens to it when its delivered, on paper and legally its all fine, so not breaking any laws. Sort of turning their heads around once they sell it. In the end money is money.

 

[Pointblank]

I thought Canadian bought the rights of Pratt & Whitney Canada for exporting technology to foreign nations couple years ago, after the lawsuit they had with the HQ in America. Probs thinking of another firm in Canada that relates to heli technology, but lets see if I can find that article about Canda buying rights to export heli technology. Even with embargo it hasn't stopped Europe nations exporting dual use military-civilian technology to China anyway, it legal to sell them to civilian sector of China, then who knows what happens when it reaches China docks.

Nope, the laws are that if what was sold to China contained components or technology controlled by the U.S. International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), it is subject to restrictions. And since the PWC PT-6 engine does have components that are under the control of ITAR, it legally cannot be sold unless PWC and the US government believe that the engines were intended for use on civilian helicopters.

Otherwise, because this happened already, there will be very negative implications for future U.S. ITAR-controlled exports to PWC, as State and Defense will remember that the Canadian company has exported to a military end-user in China, and future authorizations are likely to be reviewed more closely, and technology release decisions are likely to be more conservative. Generally, any company that wishes to export potentially sensitive pieces of technology doesn't want to be put in this position, as it will negatively affect their business, plus the major fines that result in ITAR violations.

 

[montyp165]

Nope, the laws are that if what was sold to China contained components or technology controlled by the U.S. International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), it is subject to restrictions. And since the PWC PT-6 engine does have components that are under the control of ITAR, it legally cannot be sold unless PWC and the US government believe that the engines were intended for use on civilian helicopters.

Otherwise, because this happened already, there will be very negative implications for future U.S. ITAR-controlled exports to PWC, as State and Defense will remember that the Canadian company has exported to a military end-user in China, and future authorizations are likely to be reviewed more closely, and technology release decisions are likely to be more conservative. Generally, any company that wishes to export potentially sensitive pieces of technology doesn't want to be put in this position, as it will negatively affect their business, plus the major fines that result in ITAR violations.

Ultimately it takes a combination of outside sourcing from EU and Russia and Chinese domestic sourcing to end-run ITAR and make it non-viable in the long term.

 

[Engineer]

I guess this means WZ-10 is declassified.

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[Lion]

I guess this means WZ-10 is declassified.

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Sounds great! :china: