Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread


Broccoli

Senior Member
Yeah I shared this earlier in the ASW thread. However, somewhere buried deep in the comments is my reply, which is that PLAN's subs are probably not going to be used for ASW missions. PLAN does have strong ASW capabilities, but that lies in the Type 56A corvettes and 54A frigates - these carry more sonars than all of the Tico cruisers and most of the Arleigh Burkes.

Aaron Amick is usually quite balanced, although his chat and commenters can be quite ideological and often uninformed. Someone was arguing that Russia's Zircon hypersonic missiles were "not as good as cruise missiles". I don't think it ever occured to them that the Zircon is a cruise missile... or what the difference between ballistic and cruise missiles are.

Americans who are interested on military matters, not all of course, tend to be more conservative than liberal, and therefore many look things from American exceptionalism angle instead of looking things more analytically. Also, let's not forget teenagers who's only education comes from video games and media.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
Russians also have subsonic missiles better than US Tomahawk like the Kalibr. This missile is also available in China with the Kilo and Yuan submarine classes. The Zircon's speed means any target would have a limited time to counter it, it also renders current defenses US invested billions into to protect against previous generation Soviet cruise missiles basically useless. In addition Zircon also has enough range to operate outside a US carrier group's aviation wing's range.
 

banjex

Junior Member
Registered Member
I've watched the Russian military for over 10 years now and I'm not sure they have the recon capabilities to actually target their missiles at such long ranges.
 

5unrise

New Member
Registered Member
I've watched the Russian military for over 10 years now and I'm not sure they have the recon capabilities to actually target their missiles at such long ranges.
Thats what I've been wondering as well. The Zircon has a reported range of 1000 km, but how do you guide the missile in the second half of the journey? Perhaps with some low frequency radar they may be able to detect very large targets at long range, and these would be without dedicated stealth designs, like an aircraft carrier. Surveillance satellites could also be an option.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
We already talked about that. Liana satellite network. Even in the 1970s in the time of the Soviet Union they had the Legenda satellites.
The submarine gets a fix on the target(s) from the satellite and fires a cruise missile salvo. The cruise missiles fly at altitude close to the target(s), the lead missile spots the targets with a built-in radar, and communicates with the other missiles to assign them to the targets.
 

banjex

Junior Member
Registered Member
Then the question becomes whether they had a sufficient refresh rate which as we know requires many satellites to get down to under 15 minutes and even that is not nearly good enough for targeting at long range.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
The Zircon cruise missile should take around 6 minutes to travel 1000 km.
How far away from the original position do you think a ship can travel in 6 minutes?
Even at 25 knots it can travel 4.6 km at best.
The missile can easily spot it at altitude with its built-in radar given the original fix.
 
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banjex

Junior Member
Registered Member
Better hope your terminal guidance and terminal homing are top notch when it comes to ranges like that against moving targets.
 

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