Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread


Pendemic

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Aaron Amick is an American ex-sonar man running his own YouTube channel. In this video he gives a US perspective into the Yuan subs which he considers as “China’s most deadly ASW platform”. At 4.45, he talks about China’s SOSUS program.
 

5unrise

New Member
Registered Member


Aaron Amick is an American ex-sonar man running his own YouTube channel. In this video he gives a US perspective into the Yuan subs which he considers as “China’s most deadly ASW platform”. At 4.45, he talks about China’s SOSUS program.

Yeah I shared this earlier in the ASW thread. However, somewhere buried deep in the comments is my reply, which is that PLAN's subs are probably not going to be used for ASW missions. PLAN does have strong ASW capabilities, but that lies in the Type 56A corvettes and 54A frigates - these carry more sonars than all of the Tico cruisers and most of the Arleigh Burkes.

Aaron Amick is usually quite balanced, although his chat and commenters can be quite ideological and often uninformed. Someone was arguing that Russia's Zircon hypersonic missiles were "not as good as cruise missiles". I don't think it ever occured to them that the Zircon is a cruise missile... or what the difference between ballistic and cruise missiles are.
 

AndrewS

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Yeah I shared this earlier in the ASW thread. However, somewhere buried deep in the comments is my reply, which is that PLAN's subs are probably not going to be used for ASW missions. PLAN does have strong ASW capabilities, but that lies in the Type 56A corvettes and 54A frigates - these carry more sonars than all of the Tico cruisers and most of the Arleigh Burkes.

Aaron Amick is usually quite balanced, although his chat and commenters can be quite ideological and often uninformed. Someone was arguing that Russia's Zircon hypersonic missiles were "not as good as cruise missiles". I don't think it ever occured to them that the Zircon is a cruise missile... or what the difference between ballistic and cruise missiles are.

Don't all the Type-052D and Type-055 ships have comprehensive sonar fitouts as well?
eg. VDS, TAS and bow sonars
 

Andy1974

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yeah I shared this earlier in the ASW thread. However, somewhere buried deep in the comments is my reply, which is that PLAN's subs are probably not going to be used for ASW missions. PLAN does have strong ASW capabilities, but that lies in the Type 56A corvettes and 54A frigates - these carry more sonars than all of the Tico cruisers and most of the Arleigh Burkes.

Aaron Amick is usually quite balanced, although his chat and commenters can be quite ideological and often uninformed. Someone was arguing that Russia's Zircon hypersonic missiles were "not as good as cruise missiles". I don't think it ever occured to them that the Zircon is a cruise missile... or what the difference between ballistic and cruise missiles are.
Why wont PLAN subs be used for ASW? I just assumed they would be part of any surface group.
 

5unrise

New Member
Registered Member
Why wont PLAN subs be used for ASW? I just assumed they would be part of any surface group.
They could, but it would be more situational. The diesel AIP subs are quiet enough, but they don't have the speed or the range, so might be more suited for coastal ASW. The US subs are generally regarded as very quiet, and far quieter than the PLAN nuclear subs, so one might need more usage of active sonars, which surface and air assets are more suitable for. Unless they keep bumping into undersea mountains.
 

Andy1974

Junior Member
Registered Member
They could, but it would be more situational. The diesel AIP subs are quiet enough, but they don't have the speed or the range, so might be more suited for coastal ASW. The US subs are generally regarded as very quiet, and far quieter than the PLAN nuclear subs, so one might need more usage of active sonars, which surface and air assets are more suitable for. Unless they keep bumping into undersea mountains.
Right, earlier this year a Type 054A and 2 Type 056A’s were in the Philippine Sea, I feel that a sub working in that group would be very effective, especially in an ambush situation.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yeah I shared this earlier in the ASW thread. However, somewhere buried deep in the comments is my reply, which is that PLAN's subs are probably not going to be used for ASW missions. PLAN does have strong ASW capabilities, but that lies in the Type 56A corvettes and 54A frigates - these carry more sonars than all of the Tico cruisers and most of the Arleigh Burkes.

Aaron Amick is usually quite balanced, although his chat and commenters can be quite ideological and often uninformed. Someone was arguing that Russia's Zircon hypersonic missiles were "not as good as cruise missiles". I don't think it ever occured to them that the Zircon is a cruise missile... or what the difference between ballistic and cruise missiles are.

They could. Its not about range or speed. Its because these subs are like smart minefields. You can put them along bottlenecks and gaps --- and there are plenty of these going in and out of the East and South China Seas, where they can lay ambush to both ship and sub. The whole stretch from the South China Sea to the Philippines all the way to across Indonesia, is a littoral sub's playground.
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
Yeah I shared this earlier in the ASW thread. However, somewhere buried deep in the comments is my reply, which is that PLAN's subs are probably not going to be used for ASW missions. PLAN does have strong ASW capabilities, but that lies in the Type 56A corvettes and 54A frigates - these carry more sonars than all of the Tico cruisers and most of the Arleigh Burkes.

Aaron Amick is usually quite balanced, although his chat and commenters can be quite ideological and often uninformed. Someone was arguing that Russia's Zircon hypersonic missiles were "not as good as cruise missiles". I don't think it ever occured to them that the Zircon is a cruise missile... or what the difference between ballistic and cruise missiles are.

Americans who are interested on military matters, not all of course, tend to be more conservative than liberal, and therefore many look things from American exceptionalism angle instead of looking things more analytically. Also, let's not forget teenagers who's only education comes from video games and media.
 

gelgoog

Major
Registered Member
Russians also have subsonic missiles better than US Tomahawk like the Kalibr. This missile is also available in China with the Kilo and Yuan submarine classes. The Zircon's speed means any target would have a limited time to counter it, it also renders current defenses US invested billions into to protect against previous generation Soviet cruise missiles basically useless. In addition Zircon also has enough range to operate outside a US carrier group's aviation wing's range.
 

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