Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread


Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
Then the question becomes whether they had a sufficient refresh rate which as we know requires many satellites to get down to under 15 minutes and even that is not nearly good enough for targeting at long range.
This article might come handy.

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We are getting off-topic though, this is not the thread for it.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Better hope your terminal guidance and terminal homing are top notch when it comes to ranges like that against moving targets.

We are talking about huge huge RCS targets, and there is a bunch of them. We are not talking about RCS figures for a fighter or bomber, which is like 10m2 to a 100m2. A 2000 ton frigate in 1978 would be 5000m2 alone. A medium sized tanker around 44000 tons would be around 16000. If you are supersonic --- and its the reason why these missiles need to be supersonic --- the target would not have moved much when the missile gets there. Metal ships, even in the face of sea clutter, makes magnificent radar reflections.

All that is during the Cold War where ships are blocky and full of large radar antennas. This is why modern warships now sought to reduce RCS as much as possible.

Another thing is that ships are very radio noisy. They emit all sorts of radio communications and radar waves all around, which can be detected and tracked passively, even over the horizon over large distances. Initial targeting via passive and even mid phase update via passive guidance is possible, both of which the Soviets also exploited. Today, this is why modern warships need LPI (low probability of intercept) in both communications and radar.

Sorry for getting a bit out of topic but it needs to be said.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
Is there any chance the Chinese diesel electrics will get a supersonic or hypersonic cruise missile?
They already have their Kalibr clone the YJ-18.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Is there any chance the Chinese diesel electrics will get a supersonic or hypersonic cruise missile?
They already have their Kalibr clone the YJ-18.

Yuan class is already fitted with YJ-18, not sure about Song
039C is like Yuan II and is expected much more advanced
 

5unrise

New Member
Registered Member
Is there any chance the Chinese diesel electrics will get a supersonic or hypersonic cruise missile?
They already have their Kalibr clone the YJ-18.

What I have heard from HI Sutton is that, it is difficult to fire supersonic and hypersonic missiles through torpedo tubes (because of size?), and that is why only the Russians have mastered that capability with VLS cells on board the Oscars and the Yasens. Other countries, like the US, also has VLS cells on nuclear subs, but they don't have a dedicated anti-ship supersonic missile.

The Song and Yuan classes do fire cruise missiles from torpedo tubes, but these are YJ-83 and YJ-18 with subsonic speed (except YJ-18 turns supersonic in the terminal phase).
 

para80

Junior Member
Registered Member
What I have heard from HI Sutton is that, it is difficult to fire supersonic and hypersonic missiles through torpedo tubes (because of size?), and that is why only the Russians have mastered that capability with VLS cells on board the Oscars and the Yasens. Other countries, like the US, also has VLS cells on nuclear subs, but they don't have a dedicated anti-ship supersonic missile.

The Song and Yuan classes do fire cruise missiles from torpedo tubes, but these are YJ-83 and YJ-18 with subsonic speed (except YJ-18 turns supersonic in the terminal phase).

The US aspect is not because of difficulty but simply because they have neglected AShM development for a very long time. New systems are coming online in the next few years including supersonic and perhaps hypersonic elements, and these will be fired from both VLS and tubes. Traditionally Western/NATO countries have relied on Harpoon for far too long and are just now fixing that. Sorry for OT, but I thought that's worth clarifying.
 

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