The War in the Ukraine

Botnet

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ukrainians really getting hammered tonight. Apparently 10 Tu-95s took off and launched missiles.
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I just checked a Kiev livestream and it looks like they still have electricity. So while these reports are encouraging I don't consider Russia's job complete until there is a complete and permanent blackout.
Ukraine's power grid is held together by duct tape and prayers at this point. Second wave of Ukrainian refugees would be the turning point that forces the West to drag Zelensky to the negotiating table. And I'm frankly skeptical that Russia is as low on missiles as Ukraine claims, or they wouldn't be consistently hitting Ukraine with all these massive strikes.

Not only missiles too, the kamikaze drones have proven themselves in this conflict, while the only thing the Tb-2 proved is its uselessness in a modern conflict.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Maybe Russia waiting for snow, to block the road trafic ? NATO hasn't got too much tracked vehicle left, and Russia mobilised lot of tank/APC.
There is probably a gazillion of old crappy M113s the US and its allies can scrounge together to send to Ukraine if they want to.
Ukraine is probably going to become the biggest Cold War scrapyard in the world.

The UK will give 3 WS-61 to Ukraine. These models were retired 4 years ago from Royal Navy use and 7 years ago from RAF use.
At this rate they will also start sending UH-1's mothballed somewhere.
This is basically a giant money printing scheme where they give unusable military hardware in exchange for cash. And then it will get recycled back into the MIC who need to performance maintenance on it before it is shipped to Ukraine.

Seeing on telegram pics of massive lines if people trying to get fuel, and get on busses. Mass exodus begins? Where are they going to go? Europe? Dear lord, how many people is that 10 million? 20 million? Less? More? This is going to push these economies and govts and stability to the brink if it's actually happening
Even if half their population moved in the EU it would cause massive disruptions. As is, between migrants before the conflict started, and people who left since, would not be surprised if more than a quarter of their population left by now.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Not only missiles too, the kamikaze drones have proven themselves in this conflict, while the only thing the Tb-2 proved is its uselessness in a modern conflict.
To be fair in the few times that it did work it provided ridiculous value for the Ukranian military. If Russian claims of its role in the sinking of Moskva are accurate then it had already paid for itself many times over, even if subsequent Russian AD made further use of tb-2 useless.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
To be fair in the few times that it did work it provided ridiculous value for the Ukranian military. If Russian claims of its role in the sinking of Moskva are accurate then it had already paid for itself many times over, even if subsequent Russian AD made further use of tb-2 useless.
Moskva was unupgraded Ship that most probably Russian got rid off just like so much older armour.
TB2 has no role anywhere.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
Moskva was unupgraded Ship that most probably Russian got rid off just like so much older armour.
TB2 has no role anywhere.
It's not Ukraine's fault that Russia chose to use a museum piece as a flagship. That does not take away from the ability of cheapish drones to swarm AD ships to allow for a successful combination attack, there's no point denigrating opponents capabilities to get cheap wins.

Even so early in the war we saw plenty of footage of strikes on AA position using the tb-2, it's a capable midsize drone, Ukraine just don't have the numbers required to make a difference.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
It's not Ukraine's fault that Russia chose to use a museum piece as a flagship. That does not take away from the ability of cheapish drones to swarm AD ships to allow for a successful combination attack, there's no point denigrating opponents capabilities to get cheap wins.

Even so early in the war we saw plenty of footage of strikes on AA position using the tb-2, it's a capable midsize drone, Ukraine just don't have the numbers required to make a difference.
you made a claim of TB2 and Moskova. now prove it that TB2 has any role in Moskova. That drone is practically useless and danger to Ukranians due its use of runway takeoff at slow speeds.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
There is probably a gazillion of old crappy M113s the US and its allies can scrounge together to send to Ukraine if they want to.
Ukraine is probably going to become the biggest Cold War scrapyard in the world.


This is basically a giant money printing scheme where they give unusable military hardware in exchange for cash. And then it will get recycled back into the MIC who need to performance maintenance on it before it is shipped to Ukraine.


Even if half their population moved in the EU it would cause massive disruptions. As is, between migrants before the conflict started, and people who left since, would not be surprised if more than a quarter of their population left by now.
8.1 million refugees in EU, 2.7 million refugees in Russia, 6 million living in LPR/DPR/occupied zones.

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further attack on the infrastructure during winter will cause significant demographic stress to Ukraine.

also note that refugees in Russia will be integrated, given Russian citizenships, and most of all, can be put to high value economic use immediately since they are educated in Russian language which is the working language of Russia. The refugees in EU will be unable to contribute effectively because their degrees are unlikely to be recognized and they will need to learn a EU language.
 

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ukraine's power grid is held together by duct tape and prayers at this point. Second wave of Ukrainian refugees would be the turning point that forces the West to drag Zelensky to the negotiating table. And I'm frankly skeptical that Russia is as low on missiles as Ukraine claims, or they wouldn't be consistently hitting Ukraine with all these massive strikes.
There’s a massive labor shortage in the EU. Ukrainian refugees are a godsend. Desperate to accept pretty much any job and relatively quick to integrate into Western European society.
Not only missiles too, the kamikaze drones have proven themselves in this conflict, while the only thing the Tb-2 proved is its uselessness in a modern conflict.
The TB-2 was very effective the first 3 days of the war. Once the Russians directed their GBAD to start shooting at air targets it took about a week until all of them were shot down.
 
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