PLAN 2018 Review (Jeff Head)


Jeff Head

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Hey jeff,
It was nice read, thank you for all you have done. I have only been using this forum for about a year, but I have gained so much knowledge regarding military in general. Although as a Chinese national I find myself on the opposing side of US, I am extremely honoured that my country has such a worthy adversary. I hope that you will feel better soon.
Thank you.

I do no view you as an adversary. More of a friend waiting to happen. Which is also my fondest hope for US - Sino relations.

Read my comments to JobJed above a few posts for how I feel. I will "ping" you to it.

God's best to you.
 

Bltizo

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I understand...but I honestly believe t would be the wisest course for them to take.

I know full well what you are saying and I have been researching and studying the pRC for many years. had been doing it since the mid-1990s before there was an SD and found SD soon after it was created. So yes, I know what position the PRC takes on these things.

We can agree to differ and disagree on these things, none the less, I believe being much more open about these things, is not a bad course and is something that would, IMHO enhance and benefit the PRC's position.

But that is just my opinion.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I would be interested in your reasoning for why you think the Chinese would be open about the past R&D of their rail gun programme when they have never been that open about any other project before whether it is for stealth fighters, naval ships, missiles or transports, at a stage when it is "only" in the later stages of development.


It makes complete sense for them to reveal little to nothing about the past development of their rail gun programme, and that would be fully consistent with their behaviour for other past weapons programmes.
I would love to see the PLA be open with their R&D efforts that led to J-20, Y-20, 055, PL-15, PL-XX, Y-20, Y-9, H-20, and every other new system they have under the sun in the same way that the US is, but that is not how they operate, and I think it is illogical to think they should act any differently for their railgun programme.
 

Bltizo

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Jobjed...I jhave no quarell with you are with the Chinese people.

Please stop trying to pick a fight and a quarell where none is deisred or warranted.
Jeff, I don't think he is trying to pick a fight, but reading between the lines of your post regarding the rail gun programme, what he described is what you are trying to say.

I think if you do believe that the US is ahead of China in rail gun efforts then he is suggesting that you can just go ahead and say it, rather than forming positions that don't really make sense to suggest why you think the Chinese rail gun programme is at an earlier stage than what may otherwise be suggested by the photos of the LST testbed.


I think most of us here appreciate a well reasoned and debate, but what is disliked is positions that are made without any premises for it, and what is disliked even more than that are positions that are made with premises that skirt around the issue at hand.
 

Jeff Head

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Jeff, I don't think he is trying to pick a fight, but reading between the lines of your post regarding the rail gun programme, what he described is what you are trying to say.

I think if you do believe that the US is ahead of China in rail gun efforts then he is suggesting that you can just go ahead and say it, rather than forming positions that don't really make sense to suggest why you think the Chinese rail gun programme is at an earlier stage than what may otherwise be suggested by the photos of the LST testbed.


I think most of us here appreciate a well reasoned and debate, but what is disliked is positions that are made without any premises for it, and what is disliked even more than that are positions that are made with premises that skirt around the issue at hand.
I have been here a long time my friend.

I know what folks like and don't like and I know there are a number of people who do not like what I say simply because of where I come from and the experience I have...and the opinions I hold. All of that iis fine.

To me it seems like you are doing the very thing that you seem to be accusing me of. And you know what,? You can believe that those are the things I am doing if you desire...but they are not.

I explained perfectly well my reasoning...and if people do not agree with that, that's fine.

Seems like the pot calling the kettle black though when it comes to trying to reason why I said what I did...wen I said why straight up. Iron Man saw a part of it and responded reasonably to it.

Anyhow, it is not my intent or desire to argue or debatewith folks who take the type of tone being taken.

In addition my Annual Review is what it is. However folks may feel about it.

Everyone who has been here any length of time know this because I have posted them every year.

I have been doing this for almost two decades, and I have worked on many of the military programs in engineering with companies like Lockheed, SDRC, GE Boats, Vought, Thiokol, and Boeing too at times. I fall back on my own experience and people can think what they will of it.

That experience over 35 years of professional work tells me that there is no point in pressing people who have already decided what they believe. And that is fine...but it is a two edge blade.

Might as well just let it rest.

I certainly do not want to fill the thread with endless back and forths where people say the same things over and over again to get the final word in, nor will I allow the thread to devolve into that.

Job jed said what he did...and I responded to him. That should be enough. I have no issue with him or what he said, as I indicated...he has every right to his opinion.
 
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jobjed

Captain
Jobjed...I jhave no quarell with you are with the Chinese people.

Please stop trying to pick a fight and a quarell where none is deisred or warranted.

I am not betteer than anyone.

I believe the US still ha a sigifnicant advantage in severaal areas. That may or may not last.

The US has been strong for two hundred years not because its people are any better as individuals than anyone else.

It is strong because people came here for freedom...and particulalry to worship God according to the dictates of their hearts.

The majority of Americans are still that way, and I believe God will honor that so His message can coninue to go forth...not to make us bette than anyone, but ass a beacon so people can become all they are capable of being.

We have problems in America because there are groups that do not want to believe or accept this...with freedom comes repeonsibility. I believe the American peoeple will rise to that challenge and America can become that kind of strong again...its the only strength that really matters...that moral strength...and it is ad should be available to everyone...but only on a free will basis.

Anyhow the whole point to this discussion is for me to let you know that I seek no quarell with you or anyone else. And that I do not believe I or any groups is better than anyone else. We are all equally loved and important in God's eyes...all else that makes America flows from that.

Anyhow...I pray God's best on you and yours.

I ray sincerely that the Chinese people will rise themselves and obtain true freedom. They are cllearly capable of great things...and I know that a truly free people can obtain the most possible good for themselves and their oloved ones.

I hope that hapens for all peoples.

I do have interesst in these technolgies. And I do have interests in the alliances of people with shared values when it comes to true liberty.

...and I hope America will repent of some of the things it has done wrong (like any nation should) and regain its strength in the process.

I rrespect greatly the Chionese people...I know thye are proud of what they are accomplishing...and they deserve to be, particularly as they use these strengths to forge forward peasfully and make friends with those who should and could be their friends.

That is my firmest and heartfelt hope.

I may not live to see it...but I also know that I will see it from where I know I will be after my mortal life is over.

In the neam time, I hope you will accept my words here as they are sincerely given.

SD is great place and has been for years. I hope it remains so.

To you, to @bd popeye to @Obi Wan Russell to @tphuang to @Equation to @Air Force Brat to @duncanidaho to @Deino to @siegecrossbow to @WebMaster to @Dfangsaur and all others here, I say these things in humility and sincerely. My own health ontinues to deteriorate and I know the Drs are amazed that I have lved almost two years now when back then they said I had 3-4 months left. But I know there are things the good Lord wants me to do, and I will do it as long as I can.

And in the mean time...just let's bury whatever hatchet. Okay?

God's speed.
Your sincerity, which may or may not be genuine, notwithstanding, the point is you have no evidence, circumstantial nor concrete, to believe the US has any advantage in the railgun domain.

When confronted with your lack of evidence, you brushed the issue aside and went on a tangent about accepting your religious dogma under the brand of *freedom*. I have no interest in your god or democracy, don't lecture me about it.

So, let me reiterate, where's your evidence for believing the US maintains a lead in the railgun domain? Or even the field of electrical engineering in general? If you have no evidence, that's fine, say so, but please stop going in circles.
 
Your sincerity, which may or may not be genuine, notwithstanding, the point is you have no evidence, circumstantial nor concrete, to believe the US has any advantage in the railgun domain.

When confronted with your lack of evidence, you brushed the issue aside and went on a tangent about accepting your religious dogma under the brand of *freedom*. I have no interest in your god or democracy, don't lecture me about it.

So, let me reiterate, where's your evidence for believing the US maintains a lead in the railgun domain? Or even the field of electrical engineering in general? If you have no evidence, that's fine, say so, but please stop going in circles.
Feb 4, 2018


for the SDF record: I can't help to think what if it's just teasing (hope you see I was enthusiastic enough about the possibility it wasn't just teasing!!)
actually it'd be very funny if there was nothing inside that turret
Sep 22, 2017

LOL!

(comes from
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saying recently a whole Regiment has been formed (actually re-formed) specializing in maskirovka etc.)
the question is what's inside the Yangtze River Cabin LOL
 

Jeff Head

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Your sincerity, which may or may not be genuine, notwithstanding, the point is you have no evidence, circumstantial nor concrete, to believe the US has any advantage in the railgun domain.

When confronted with your lack of evidence, you brushed the issue aside and went on a tangent about accepting your religious dogma under the brand of *freedom*. I have no interest in your god or democracy, don't lecture me about it.

So, let me reiterate, where's your evidence for believing the US maintains a lead in the railgun domain? Or even the field of electrical engineering in general? If you have no evidence, that's fine, say so, but please stop going in circles.
I stated why I felt the way I did. You do not accept it. That is fine and there is no need to make accusations or use back handed or open handed belittling... As I said, it is clear we fell differently and you have every right to your own opinion.

There is a huge difference ein the amount and time in testing, and a maintain of actual tests that the US has published with little to none from the PRC.

This is true...people can fell why it is so and have differing opinions of it.

No need to go on and on about the differences...it is clear where we both strand and folks can decide for themselves wiothout endless debate, bickering, and any belittling of one another.
 

Bltizo

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I have been here a long time my friend.

I know what folks like and don't like and I know there are a number of people who do not like what I say simply because of where I come from and the experience I have...and the opinions I hold. All of that iis fine.

To me it seems like you are doing the very thing that you seem to be accusing me of. And you know what,? You can believe that those are the things I am doing if you desire...but they are not.
What I'm "accusing" you of, is that you believe the US railgun programme is better/ahead of the Chinese railgun programme.
I am absolutely okay with you believing that or holding that position, and starting a debate on it.

I do not consider that to be wanting to "start a fight," but it does mean I want to start a discussion.




I explained perfectly well my reasoning...and if people do not agree with that, that's fine.

Seems like the pot calling the kettle black though when it comes to trying to reason why I said what I did...wen I said why straight up. Iron Man saw a part of it and responded reasonably to it.

Anyhow, it is not my intent or desire to argue or debatewith folks who take the type of tone being taken.

In addition my Annual Review is what it is. However folks may feel about it.

Everyone who has been here any length of time know this because I have posted them every year.

I have been doing this for almost two decades, and I have worked on many of the military programs in engineering with companies like Lockheed, SDRC, GE Boats, Vought, Thiokol, and Boeing too at times. I fall back on my own experience and people can think what they will of it.

That experience over 35 years of professional work tells me that there is no point in pressing people who have already decided what they believe. And that is fine...but it is a two edge blade.

Might as well just let it rest.

I certainly do not want to fill the thread with endless back and forths where people say the same things over and over again to get the final word in, nor will I allow the thread to devolve into that.

Job jed said what he did...and I responded to him. That should be enough. I have no issue with him or what he said, as I indicated...he has every right to his opinion.

Jeff, if you want to believe what you believe despite the counterpoints that I have been raised, you are entitled to believe that.

But that suggests to me you believe the difference of opinions and the reasoning behind those different opinions are not worthy of a debate or further exploration, which I think is inconsistent with common sense and the evidence we have at hand.
 

Bltizo

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I stated why I felt the way I did. You do not accept it. That is fine and there is no need to make accusations or use back handed or open handed belittling... As I said, it is clear we fell differently and you have every right to your own opinion.

There is a huge difference ein the amount and time in testing, and a maintain of actual tests that the US has published with little to none from the PRC.
Jeff, let me ask you a few questions.

1: do you believe it is reasonable to think the PLAN (or indeed any Navy) would have conducted land based tests of their rail gun before installing one aboard a ship for shipbased tests?
2: do you believe it is reasonable to expect the PRC to publicly release information, photos and evidence about their rail gun programme's R&D of past years if they have done R&D, if such a weapon is still in testing and development?
3: do you believe it is reasonable for the PRC to have sought to deliberately hide the evidence of the R&D of their rail gun programme until such a stage that they were comfortable with its development stage to become more open with the weapon's existence?
 

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