Ladakh Flash Point

Status
Not open for further replies.

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
China is not stupid like Japan was in WW2. China does NOT want a separated India. A separated India is a vulnerable India with a LOT of people. It also has nuclear, biological and chemical weapon that could very easily find itself in the hands of terrorists. A separated India is also not going to be an independent India, this means that other great power (namely the US, UK, France, Russia, Pakistan, and even Japan), will seek to fill the power vacuum, which is very bad for China.
Right now, the subcontinent's balance of power is still quite stable. China can inexpensively exert enough deterrent on India, with the help of Pakistan, Nepal and some times Bangladesh to keep a balance of power in the region. If China somehow breaks India up, then the shared interest between China, Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh would be gone. Other great powers will come in, the whole region will become complicated again, and China will be dragged into the conflict.

An India which separates into lots of smaller states looks like a divided squabbling Europe, which outside powers like Russia, China and the USA can influence. But would it be more like Europe in the 19th century, 20th century or the 21st century?

And always remember that China can project more economic and military power onto the Indian subcontinent than anyone else.

I also think you're overestimating the effect of terrorists getting their hands on NBC weapons.
Who are these terrorists? And what is their objective? How easy would it actually be?

Yes, some of the shared interests between China, Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh would be gone.
But that's not an issue because India would have disintegrated.

---

The other question is the level of friendliness/hostility that India has towards China.

At the moment, the India public and elite are intrinsically hostile to China - much of which has come from the fake media narrative over the last 50+ years, that China launched a surprise unprovoked attack on an innocent India in 1962. If that narrative remains, it is very difficult to work with India.

Just read up on the Brooks-Henderson report on the 1962 war.

---

So on balance, I think a divided India would be better from a Chinese perspective.
But actually making this happen isn't worth the huge costs involved.

Unless of course, India becomes an actively hostile state that joins an anti-China alliance.
 

caohailiang

Junior Member
Registered Member
Most of Indian defense spending goes towards salaries and their 'One Retirement One Pension' program.
For 2020-21 they allocated $73.65 Billion USD out of a total budget of around $430.5 Billion USD. And that's deficit spending with stimulus packages beyond their projected revenue, and pre covid-19 lockdown. But anyway, defense spending is a little over 17% of the Indian budget.
The following article gives a nice summary of that $73.65 Billion USD allocation:
very interesting, is that a typical percentage for weapon purchase, as for India it is less than 30 percent.
and i wonder if retirement pension is coming out of military budget in China?
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
the role of Pakistan in Ladakh Standoff will be crucial,Pakistan may find for the first time that its Military is at par with Indian military,especially when India has been forced to deploy number of Divisions on LAC with China. In a classic two front situation Indian options are limited.Occupied Kashmir is seeing an unprecedented movement where youth is coming out in streets to confront Indian Army.
In the eastern sea board of India and Seven Sisters,t eh Naxal and Naga activity may tie down a major component of Indian Army,especially its Eastern Command.

Can you provide any links or references for your statement that Kashmiri youths are confronting in the Indian Army in unprecedented numbers?

I can well imagine the situation is combustible given:

1. The pentup frustration from a Coronavirus lockdown
2. The lack of jobs due to the Coronavirus and the effects of Kashmir being cut off from outside communications since Article 370 was revoked in August 2019
3. The Kashmir self-government being disbanded after Artciel 370, so New Delhi can rule even more incompetently
4. The Indian Army/Paramilitaries taking over policing from the Kashmir Police
 
Last edited:

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The two terrifying words for the Indian leadership should be Vietnamization and Brazilianization.

What do these words mean? Vietnamization -> being forced to overspend on the military in order to fend off a strategic threat, impoverishing your economy. It is a Sun-zian way of winning without fighting.

Brazilianization -> being forced into a middle income trap by a superior power

Even if India doesn't throw any punches, it still faces the threat of China Vietnamizing it so that it can Brazilianize it. If India is stuck spending huge amounts on defense, for nationalist glory, it's not spending money on human capital and physical capital upgrades. Unless you're running a militarily parasitic economy (see Nazi Germany, Spanish Empire), guns don't make money.

I doubt Vietnamisation is possible with India.

China has a GDP some 52x larger than Vietnam. The China-India difference is only like 5x.

Plus India is a secondary theatre for China.
China has to prioritise the Western Pacific and the 1st Island Chain first.

---
On Brazilianisation, Brazil isn't stuck in the middle-income trap due to excessive military spending.
Look at the military spending figures yourself. Brazil is only at 1.5% of GDP.

So I theorise that Brazil is stuck in the middle-income trap for the following reasons.

1. Brazil also had a period of fast growth back around 1970, but then it tapered off.
2. Brazil is still a exporter of low-value add natural resources. It hasn't moved up the value chain into high-end manufacturing or into services. A useful indicator is low R&D spending.
3. Brazil has woeful infrastructure spending.
4. Brazil's educational results are awful, as per the PISA assessments.
4. The Brazilian government is notable corrupt, incompetent and emotional
5. Brazil is a very divided society on race (half the population is *black*) and wealth segregation, without much social cohesion
6. Culturally, Brazilians are lackadaisical in terms of work ethic and timekeeping.
7. Brazil also has very weak institutions.
8. Brazilians think short-term instead of long-term.

On all these points, you could easily substitute the word Brazil for India.

In comparison, China is the opposite of all these characteristics, just like all the other East Asian Tigers who have successfully escaped the middle-income trap.

So I reckon that if India gets stuck in the middle-income trap, it will be entirely due to the efforts of India.
 

Inst

Captain
I doubt Vietnamisation is possible with India.

China has a GDP some 52x larger than Vietnam. The China-India difference is only like 5x.

Plus India is a secondary theatre for China.
China has to prioritise the Western Pacific and the 1st Island Chain first.

---
On Brazilianisation, Brazil isn't stuck in the middle-income trap due to excessive military spending.
Look at the military spending figures yourself. Brazil is only at 1.5% of GDP.

So I theorise that Brazil is stuck in the middle-income trap for the following reasons.

1. Brazil also had a period of fast growth back around 1970, but then it tapered off.
2. Brazil is still a exporter of low-value add natural resources. It hasn't moved up the value chain into high-end manufacturing or into services. A useful indicator is low R&D spending.
3. Brazil has woeful infrastructure spending.
4. Brazil's educational results are awful, as per the PISA assessments.
4. The Brazilian government is notable corrupt, incompetent and emotional
5. Brazil is a very divided society on race (half the population is *black*) and wealth segregation, without much social cohesion
6. Culturally, Brazilians are lackadaisical in terms of work ethic and timekeeping.
7. Brazil also has very weak institutions.
8. Brazilians think short-term instead of long-term.

On all these points, you could easily substitute the word Brazil for India.

In comparison, China is the opposite of all these characteristics, just like all the other East Asian Tigers who have successfully escaped the middle-income trap.

So I reckon that if India gets stuck in the middle-income trap, it will be entirely due to the efforts of India.


In 1979, when China hit Vietnam, it was something like 13:1 ratio between the PRC and Vietnam. The present ratio is something like 6:1, which isn't completely undoable.

As for Brazilianization, the US, through its Monroe doctrine and regional hegemony, has been preventing the emergence of any strong competitors in Latin America. Applied to China-India; it would be more if China spent effort on distracting India from modernizing or sabotaging its elites.

From the US perspective, the problem for them is that American strategy has been focused on creating primacy and keeping it. An India that can stand up to China is also an India that can stand up to the United States.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
China should really look into possibilities of setting up their next factories & investing in emerging economies which are stable rather than wasting time in failed whiny state who starts burning posters,shirts,ties at every chance to show their "patriotism" & going to implode eventually.


Not the first time it was banned.

They always manage to keep using it despite bans.
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
Not the first time it was banned.

They always manage to keep using it despite bans.

This is like the time they announced the COVID lockdown 4 hours in advanced, and caused chaos in the country. I wonder whats going to happen to all the indian social media celebrities on tiktok. I guess the BJP will just destroy more jobs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top