Ladakh Flash Point


zbb

New Member
Registered Member
I recently looked this up and ordered four PLA MRE on AliExpress due to my wife doing a terrible job on lunch selection on our last ski trip.
Can you post a link for the ones you bought? AliExpress's search function is terrible.
 

Waqar Khan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs statement on Ladakh has raised the temperature in Indian MEA and Godi media,they are crying like babies.India must understand that it sits on lot of occupied land in South Tibet,Kashmir and Ladakh
 

Waqar Khan

Junior Member
Registered Member
The farmers protests in Indian Punjab has now resulted in open defiance,People are boycotting Reliance Gas Filling stations of Ambanis and Adani's Farms and Agri Silos in Punjab.This sentiment can affect Sikh soldiers and officers deployed in Ladakh as they see their land being plundered by Hindutva flag bearers of RSS. PLA must make a note of it.Interesting folk songs from Punjabi singers are telling Punjabis in Indian Punjab to open their eyes as the thieves of RSS have entered their homes..This song is good for use on LAC for telling the Sikh soldiers of what is happening to their land
 

Litebreeze

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Everyone, not sure this article had been posted before, if so then sorry for redundancy.

I know it's Indian news site, but it admits something..

Had Jawaharlal Nehru accepted Zhou Enlai compromise-based solution, Sudheendra Kulkarni argues, “India and China, after some negotiations, could have fixed the boundary permanently” and “prevented” the 1962 war.
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Figaro

Senior Member
Registered Member
Everyone, not sure this article had been posted before, if so then sorry for redundancy.

I know it's Indian news site, but it admits something..

Had Jawaharlal Nehru accepted Zhou Enlai compromise-based solution, Sudheendra Kulkarni argues, “India and China, after some negotiations, could have fixed the boundary permanently” and “prevented” the 1962 war.
Detail to the news site

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This proposal is indeed real and is probably one of the worst foreign policy mistakes made not just by an Indian leader, but any leader in the world in the 20th century. Had India accepted this proposal, which is quite generous looking at the state of things today, they could have permanent peace on the border and focus their military buildup exclusively towards the LOC. Also, the Chinese Pakistani alliance would be considerably weaker than it is today and in general Chinese/Indian relations would be more akin to the amiable Chinese/Bangladesh relations of today.

But nope, Nehru rejected it, which caused a humiliating defeat with India losing 10,000+ soldiers and the remaining portion of Aksai Chin they controlled prior to 1962. And this is not to mention the huge Chinese military threat on the northern border that draws thin Indian military resources, which have to be dispersed to face the LOC and LAC simultaneously. Basically, India created a permanent and much more powerful enemy with the rejection of this proposal ... there were reports of India in the 2000s trying to offer the Chinese the same proposal Zhou Enlai wrote up, but this was obviously rejected by the Chinese who are in a much more powerful position now. Really goes to show the complete lack of foresight in not just the Indian military, but India as a country.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
The reason China took some parts of Aksai Chin, which it didn't control prior to 1962 war, was probably because it was confident enough that the Indians would not go on the offensive after they mobilised "reinforcements". The Indians were banking on a sort of either and situation where the Soviets + Americans would come to their aid following the Chinese support during the Korean war vis a vis Americans and the cooling relations between China and the USSR right when the Sino-Soviet split was snowballing.

Since neither the Soviets or Americans openly gave the Indians any real military support, they were not confident in fighting and taking back the PLA settled parts of Aksai Chin. From China's perspective, the PLA was already giving the Indians a huge benefit by not simply taking all of China's claims but this was probably done because they expected this would be far beyond the line for India and would push both countries into unrestricted war - something both wanted to avoid.

This unfortunately means the confrontation gets pushed further down the line unless one side is happy to concede.

What China gave in Zhou's offer was a gambler's hedge. Settle back then before the war in a way that seems relatively fair where both take a compromise, or kick the can further down the road. China was extremely diplomatic but back then it did not wield much political power and understood the monumental amount of work that was in front of it wrt catching up with the west. They allowed the Indians to choose to settle then or gamble to see who is the clear superior power in the future. How accommodating and magnanimous. An arrogant and violent power would not have behaved this way towards the Indians after securing all the Chinese claimed lands and much much much further. They should really have given back the captured lands that were mutually recognised as India and just settled right on China's own claim lines. This opens the possibility of constant skirmishing and danger of escalation which would have distracted China from its other priorities though. We'll never know whether that choice would have proven to be better and what the costs are now.

It boggles the mind how tame the CCP still is towards the Indians who have demonstrated clear hatred for everything Chinese with little understanding on reality and truths. This hatred has not been returned by China. Honestly no Chinese have called for the rape and beating of any Indian person in China. No Chinese have been burning Indian flags and stabbing effigies of Modi. No Chinese are publicly lynching Indians or banning Indians from their hotels and businesses. The west is sold this liberal backed fairytale of peaceful Hindus with yoga studios and chai lattes chanting namaste but the reality is so far from this lie.
 
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azuazu

Just Hatched
Registered Member
It boggles the mind how tame the CCP still is towards the Indians who have demonstrated clear hatred for everything Chinese with little understanding on reality and truths.
It shouldn't come as a surprise. Unless properly handled, hatred on a national scale is incredibly detrimental to the health of a society. It kills productivity, destroys social order and left long enough to fester, traps generations of people in a vicious cycle of ruin that is hard to break out of.

If you're unconvinced, just think about what hate and anger does to a person. It damages their mind, ruins their health, takes up valuable time that could have been used to make them happy. In some people it even creates paranoia and other mental illnesses!

If you consider India to be an enemy, you should be encouraging their hate while keeping them at arms length. Trap them in a hell where they can do nothing but gnash their teeth in anger, while you stay productive and at peace.

There's no sweeter revenge than living well.
 

Litebreeze

Just Hatched
Registered Member
This proposal is indeed real and is probably one of the worst foreign policy mistakes made not just by an Indian leader, but any leader in the world in the 20th century. Had India accepted this proposal, which is quite generous looking at the state of things today, they could have permanent peace on the border and focus their military buildup exclusively towards the LOC. Also, the Chinese Pakistani alliance would be considerably weaker than it is today and in general Chinese/Indian relations would be more akin to the amiable Chinese/Bangladesh relations of today.

But nope, Nehru rejected it, which caused a humiliating defeat with India losing 10,000+ soldiers and the remaining portion of Aksai Chin they controlled prior to 1962. And this is not to mention the huge Chinese military threat on the northern border that draws thin Indian military resources, which have to be dispersed to face the LOC and LAC simultaneously. Basically, India created a permanent and much more powerful enemy with the rejection of this proposal ... there were reports of India in the 2000s trying to offer the Chinese the same proposal Zhou Enlai wrote up, but this was obviously rejected by the Chinese who are in a much more powerful position now. Really goes to show the complete lack of foresight in not just the Indian military, but India as a country.
The reason China took some parts of Aksai Chin, which it didn't control prior to 1962 war, was probably because it was confident enough that the Indians would not go on the offensive after they mobilised "reinforcements". The Indians were banking on a sort of either and situation where the Soviets + Americans would come to their aid following the Chinese support during the Korean war vis a vis Americans and the cooling relations between China and the USSR right when the Sino-Soviet split was snowballing.

Since neither the Soviets or Americans openly gave the Indians any real military support, they were not confident in fighting and taking back the PLA settled parts of Aksai Chin. From China's perspective, the PLA was already giving the Indians a huge benefit by not simply taking all of China's claims but this was probably done because they expected this would be far beyond the line for India and would push both countries into unrestricted war - something both wanted to avoid.

This unfortunately means the confrontation gets pushed further down the line unless one side is happy to concede.

What China gave in Zhou's offer was a gambler's hedge. Settle back then before the war in a way that seems relatively fair where both take a compromise, or kick the can further down the road. China was extremely diplomatic but back then it did not wield much political power and understood the monumental amount of work that was in front of it wrt catching up with the west. They allowed the Indians to choose to settle then or gamble to see who is the clear superior power in the future. How accommodating and magnanimous. An arrogant and violent power would not have behaved this way towards the Indians after securing all the Chinese claimed lands and much much much further. They should really have given back the captured lands that were mutually recognised as India and just settled right on China's own claim lines. This opens the possibility of constant skirmishing and danger of escalation which would have distracted China from its other priorities though. We'll never know whether that choice would have proven to be better and what the costs are now.

It boggles the mind how tame the CCP still is towards the Indians who have demonstrated clear hatred for everything Chinese with little understanding on reality and truths. This hatred has not been returned by China. Honestly no Chinese have called for the rape and beating of any Indian person in China. No Chinese have been burning Indian flags and stabbing effigies of Modi. No Chinese are publicly lynching Indians or banning Indians from their hotels and businesses. The west is sold this liberal backed fairytale of peaceful Hindus with yoga studios and chai lattes chanting namaste but the reality is so far from this lie.

One of the most important things, is that the government of India was/is covering it from people of India, since Nehru until now. And in doing so, they also inherit problem for the future generation. As stated in this article:


What should the Indian public learn from the disclosures contained in the Henderson-Brooks-Bhagat report? The most important is that China did not start the 1962 war. We did it, in an act of the image of China as an aggressive, expansionist nation, that the US has done its level best to propagate. The Chinese demonstrated their lack of expansionist intent not only by pulling back in Ladakh to positions not very different from the ones they had occupied before the war, but far more unequivocally by withdrawing from the Tawang tract, which houses the second most important monastery in Tibetan Buddhism – essentially returning Tawang to us.The report also reveals that China has been remarkably consistent in the terms it has set for a settlement. In Ladakh, the border region recognised by the 1993 Agreement is almost identical to the status quo that was established in 1960 before India’s adoption of the Forward Policy.Publication by the government of the Henderson-Brooks-Bhagat report is therefore long overdue. This is not only because it will bring balance back into our relations with our most important, and potentially most dangerous neighbour, but also because it will finally allow us to recognise and pay tribute to the incredible heroism of officers like Major B.C. Pant of the 2nd Rajputs, Major Shaitan Singh of the Kumaon regiment and hundreds of heroic soldiers who refused to surrender and fought to the last bullet knowing that only death awaited them, without tasting the faint but bitter aura of defeat that still lingers around that war.​



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MwRYum

Major
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Oka folks, they have a "homegrown"(!!!!) mizzile now which can strike Tibet. Though i admit, i have no idea what would they be targeting at Tibet.
In theory, targeting government offices would suffice, though I'd be more concern if India can ensure that its guidance system is reliable enough that Potala Palace won't suffer even a scratch.

How can western nations support this fascist, misogynist, racist nation?
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Western nations will continue their full support even if it openly worship Satan and sacrifice children in blood rituals, so long it keep up the anti-China policy.

It boggles the mind how tame the CCP still is towards the Indians who have demonstrated clear hatred for everything Chinese with little understanding on reality and truths. This hatred has not been returned by China. Honestly no Chinese have called for the rape and beating of any Indian person in China. No Chinese have been burning Indian flags and stabbing effigies of Modi. No Chinese are publicly lynching Indians or banning Indians from their hotels and businesses. The west is sold this liberal backed fairytale of peaceful Hindus with yoga studios and chai lattes chanting namaste but the reality is so far from this lie.
Look at the Chinese leaderships, you'd see they're almost all engineer-trained, and all are seasoned officials who worked their way from the the bottom echelon of the bureaucracy, whereas "democratic countries" leaders and cabinet ministers not necessary have such career upbringing, commonly lawyer-trained (ironic that I work in a law firm, took my legal executive training, and I've such disdain of the profession...), and very likely get the job because of political assignment instead of experienced from the grounds up. Engineers are more likely level headed by their profession, whereas lawyers are snakes...

Besides, I remember when India began their "boycott China" drive a few months back, Chinese response was something along the "as much as we wanted to respond in kind, we can find no India brand/product in China to do so!" line...plus a few other things, Chinese at large still have a problem to take India's aggression seriously, though there's sort of a consensus that hopefully India will soon make a first move, because "war of 1962 won China 50 years of peace in that direction".
 

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