Ladakh Flash Point

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
In summary, China gave the Indians the old 2 steps forward 1 step back routine and the Indians are focused solely on the 1 step back :p

I have doubts China cares about this LAC at all. It has no energy, no raw materials of value or usefulness, no freshwater, no strategic value except for being a danger to CPEC routes in case India plans to make military disruptions there. Indian analysts realised early on that China's surprisingly aggressive response to India's LAC provocations in 2018 to 2019, was aimed at showing India some resolve in keeping this border dispute inert well into the future where the gap between China and India becomes ever more pronounced.
 

Inst

Captain
In summary, China gave the Indians the old 2 steps forward 1 step back routine and the Indians are focused solely on the 1 step back :p

I have doubts China cares about this LAC at all. It has no energy, no raw materials of value or usefulness, no freshwater, no strategic value except for being a danger to CPEC routes in case India plans to make military disruptions there. Indian analysts realised early on that China's surprisingly aggressive response to India's LAC provocations in 2018 to 2019, was aimed at showing India some resolve in keeping this border dispute inert well into the future where the gap between China and India becomes ever more pronounced.

As I've said before, the Sino-Indian border is useless. Even if you "liberate" Kashmir, the Pakistani border is way too mountainous to be of use, and if China seriously wants to reinforce the Pakistanis they're better off getting the Afghans to fix their Taliban problem, then doing belt-and-road infrastructure to connect Pakistan up via Afghanistan.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
In summary, China gave the Indians the old 2 steps forward 1 step back routine and the Indians are focused solely on the 1 step back :p

I have doubts China cares about this LAC at all. It has no energy, no raw materials of value or usefulness, no freshwater, no strategic value except for being a danger to CPEC routes in case India plans to make military disruptions there. Indian analysts realised early on that China's surprisingly aggressive response to India's LAC provocations in 2018 to 2019, was aimed at showing India some resolve in keeping this border dispute inert well into the future where the gap between China and India becomes ever more pronounced.

No, that is a wrong conclusion based on biased and false western propaganda narratives with racist undertones that state China only cares about material or strategic gains and have no deeper principles or motivations.

The LAC, and even much, if not all of the entire areas in dispute dispute, have much in the way of intrinsic or strategic value to China. That is why Zhoenlai proposed both sides just keep what they hold and end the dispute altogether.

The Indian media keeps harping on about one road in disputed territory like China’s entire hold on both Xinjiang and Tibet depends on it, when it’s nothing of the sort. To China, it’s just a road that saves some travel time. Loosing it would cause delays but not cut any major parts of China off from the rest, and China could easily build a replacement high way outside of disputed territory if it wanted to.

The disputed areas are of no threat to CPEC due to geography. It might be close as the crow flies, but good luck trying to launch and sustain an offensive military campaign against China and Pakistan from it. There are so many natural choke points and barriers you will be easily bottled up and destroyed if you were so foolish.

No, the real reason China reacts so strongly to Indian salami tactics is because of history and principles. Because of history, upon its founding, the PRC made itself and the Chinese people a vow that no foreign power will ever again take an inch of Chinese territory through force of arms. For China, this isn’t a matter of material or tactical gain, but one of principles and national dignity. The flip side is that China does not want to be the one to impose its territorial claims on others through military force, as it knows what its like to be on the receiving end, but at the end of the day, that is a nicety, and not a principle. .

It is because India fundamentally misunderstands the very nature of its dispute with China (again thanks largely to western propaganda) that its entire strategy and approach is fundamentally and fatally flawed.

Because India thinks this is a dispute about material gain, it thinks that if it can raise the costs enough that it will shift China’s cost benefit analysis such that China will somehow decide its not worth the costs to maintaining its claim.

When you shift your point of view to look at the issue from that prospective, a lot of India’s irrational moves start to make a little more sense.

The increasingly aggressive patrolling by the Indians; the general increase in tensions; the deployment of ever more forces to the boarder regions; the increasingly frequency of major incidents and stand-offs; even the app bans and mini-trade war etc. All of it is designed to increase the monetary cost of maintaining its claim for China because they mistakenly think this is about money for China.

That is why Indian strategies are at best doom to fail, and worst case, could wear out Beijing’s patience and cause Beijing to decide to throw niceties out the window and just resolve the issue militarily once and for all.
 

Inst

Captain
Whenever people start talking "principles" you can quickly assume they're going to do something stupid. China has been happy to amicably resolve territorial disputes with ceding of some territory in return for others back, look at the Kazakh-Chinese border dispute for instance, with clarification and strict demarcation completed in 2002.

As far as Galwan goes, the fun thing about Modi's statement is that India has itself had an expansionist policy. If he's stating that he's willing to man up and play ball on finally demarcating the border, more power to him. I hope the Chinese reciprocate and can get rid of this idiotic dispute.
 

Inst

Captain
Oh, re: coronavirus? India is just desperate, their case number is growing at 10% per day. Vaccines, if we're just talking about something that has efficacy, damn the side effects, aren't that hard to do. The challenge is getting a good and safe vaccine up that doesn't kill too many recipients.

If they can rush a vaccine out by mid-August, this isn't worse than China putting the PLA through coronavirus vaccination; it's just that their desperation has made them skip steps.
 

discspinner

Junior Member
Registered Member
Oh, re: coronavirus? India is just desperate, their case number is growing at 10% per day. Vaccines, if we're just talking about something that has efficacy, damn the side effects, aren't that hard to do. The challenge is getting a good and safe vaccine up that doesn't kill too many recipients.

If they can rush a vaccine out by mid-August, this isn't worse than China putting the PLA through coronavirus vaccination; it's just that their desperation has made them skip steps.

The western media doesn't really care about suffering and and death in India. There is so much of it to begin with. What's another million to the million under 5 mortality, and millions of other unnecessary deaths already occurring every year.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
This shows how weak the india manufacturing sector is. They can't even make their own sleeping bags. And they are still importing chemical fertilizer in large quantity from China despite the ban on Chinese imports.

It's crazy, during my enforced absence. I've been to other forums and tweeters. The hatred of all things Chinese is unbelievable. What's more there's no logic in it. If it's anything to do with Chinese, you just hate it because.... it's like reflex reaction.

It remind of a comedy programme in the UK, in the late 80s early 90s, where a group of young Indian comedians taking a fun look at their parents love of all things India. The programme is called goodness gracious me. The forums have people like that all inhabit in it. It makes one wonder, how can China ever have dialogue with people like that? Even if politicians are educated and level headed, they still got to be mindful of the people like what I described. Because after all, they are the people the politicians get their supports from!

Anyway I'm not sure if this has been posted in my enforced absence. Apologies if it had. Here's the politicians trying to appease his supporters

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Anyway coming back to why I wanted post the first place is in response to India's manufacturing poweress. I'm not sure if the following claim is true. So please forgive if it's not. According to this, India'saremed forces body armour are manufactured in China!

FB_IMG_1594328015921.jpg
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
It's crazy, during my enforced absence. I've been to other forums and tweeters. The hatred of all things Chinese is unbelievable. What's more there's no logic in it. If it's anything to do with Chinese, you just hate it because.... it's like reflex reaction.

It remind of a comedy programme in the UK, in the late 80s early 90s, where a group of young Indian comedians taking a fun look at their parents love of all things India. The programme is called goodness gracious me. The forums have people like that all inhabit in it. It makes one wonder, how can China ever have dialogue with people like that? Even if politicians are educated and level headed, they still got to be mindful of the people like what I described. Because after all, they are the people the politicians get their supports from!

Anyway I'm not sure if this has been posted in my enforced absence. Apologies if it had. Here's the politicians trying to appease his supporters

View attachment 61693
View attachment 61694
View attachment 61695

Anyway coming back to why I wanted post the first place is in response to India's manufacturing poweress. I'm not sure if the following claim is true. So please forgive if it's not. According to this, India'saremed forces body armour are manufactured in China!

View attachment 61692

That’s no surprise really. Even the U.S. imports a lot of body armor from China.

This begs the question of whether Indian nationalists will fault “shoddy quality Chinese body armor” if, God forbid, Indian soldiers die during a shootout with China or Pakistan.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
That’s no surprise really. Even the U.S. imports a lot of body armor from China.

This begs the question of whether Indian nationalists will fault “shoddy quality Chinese body armor” if, God forbid, Indian soldiers die during a shootout with China or Pakistan.

Can you imagine that? The nationalist will point their fingers at shoddy workmanship, etc. But not at their own inability to produce anything meaningful. Such mighty superpower nation wannabe.

If it was China, we would analyse our short-comings and devised a strategy to overcome it. But alas, no. The superpower wannabe just point fingers and rave a few months. And go back in their dream of being superpower and buys everything from Russia and the West. And everything will be fine and dandy in their utopia!
 
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