Ladakh Flash Point

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Figaro

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Doing an internet search for US news media that mention non-indian sources about this story, i only found this article from U.S. News & World Report. What do you think about it?

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This is the same article that said 35 Chinese soldiers were killed according to "anonymous US intelligence sources." Let me ask you why would US News (a third rate newspaper) be the only publication to receive such classified intelligence reports? Maybe if NYT, Reuters, or Fox all corroborated this the source would be much more reliable. More than likely either the author was duped by sources claiming to be in the US intelligence apparatus (i.e. Indian posers) or the author simply made up the source to give the article more traction among the Indian audience. I believe the latter is true because so many Indian posters referred to this one article when stating the number of PLA casualties. Even Indian news articles were referencing this US News article to show that the Chinese suffered more casualties than the Indians lol
 

siegecrossbow

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Doing an internet search for US news media that mention non-indian sources about this story, i only found this article from U.S. News & World Report. What do you think about it?

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I think that if the said intelligence source had real proof of 35 Chinese casualties they wouldn't have hesitated to release them.
 

twineedle

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Satellite images confirm that China has retreated from the LAC, well within its own territory


The agreement reached was that both sides would move back two km from the LAC and create a de-facto buffer zone, with both sides able to patrol but no permanent structures. This would be a return to status quo ante, and exactly what India wanted since the DBO road would not be threatened. However, the most recent Chinese images show that India hasn't completely withdrawn yet.
The images show that while China has gone back by over 1 km into its side of the Lac, India still has one forward camp of about 30 soldiers about 500m from the LAC, and one rear camp of at least 50 soldiers about 1 km from lac. China currently has no positions within a km of the LAC in galwan. This shows that India is waiting for more confirmation about Chinese intentions before completely withdrawing as per the agreement. For the sake of comparison, this is another Chinese image of Indian positions in the valley.




In addition, China has also withdrawn from Hot Springs and Gogra sectors, with India reciprocating.


Meanwhile, some disengagement has taken place at Pangong Tso. China has already retreated from the base of Finger 4, known a Foxhole point. Those soldiers and structures have allegedly been moved to Finger 5. Keep in mind India claims up to Finger 8, while China claims up to Finger 2.

Pangong will definitely take a while to solve. Currently China is still keeping some camps on the Finger 4 ridge, but most of them have been removed. Here is an example of a cleared PLA camp

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Another interesting image shows that the map of China inscribed on Finger 5 seemingly claiming the land for China has been covered up.

This likely means PLA is preparing to withdraw further.


Overall, the disengagement progress is still ongoing, and it is too early to jump to any conclusions. However it is funny how some members here are so quick to declare victory for China, when it is clear that currently china has retreated the furthest, and India's infrastructure projects connecting DBO road are secure.
 

Figaro

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Here is the latest news. The fact that the Indian military agreed to the demilitarized buffer zone is absolutely shocking to me ... no wonder why India wants to keep the agreement in private.

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 11th July 20


After days of negotiations between Indian and Chinese officers on the terms of disengagement in the Hot Spring area of Ladakh, the two sides have agreed on Saturday to pull back troops by one kilometre (km) each, say government sources.

The disengagement, which is expected to be completed by Sunday, will create a demilitarized buffer zone of two km, roughly along the Chang Chenmo River, into which neither side will send patrols for the present.

These terms of disengagement are to China’s advantage. People’s Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers, who have intruded 3-4 km across the Line of Actual Control (LAC) into Indian territory near Patrolling Point 15 (PP-15), and about 2 km near PP-17A, will only be required to pull back 1 km, say the sources.

That means that, even after the disengagement, the PLA will remain 2-3 km on the Indian side of the LAC near PP-15 and at least one km inside Indian territory near PP-17A. Effectively the demilitarized buffer zone will lie entirely in Indian territory and the LAC would effectively shift by 1-3 km into India.

The plus side to the disengagement is that Indian and Chinese troops will pull back from their dangerous eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation in this sector. About 1,000 soldiers from each side have been confronting each other near PP-15 and about 1,500 from each side in the vicinity of PP-17A.

However, there is no withdrawal or thinning out of the large number troops that the PLA has concentrated on the Chinese side of the LAC, east of India’s PP-18, 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23. Chinese artillery guns also remain deployed across the LAC from PP-19.

Pangong Tso disengagement

Also disadvantageous to India is the mutual withdrawal being implemented in the Pangong Tso lake sector, where Chinese troops are required to pull back from the confrontation point at Finger 4, to Finger 5 further east. Meanwhile, Indian troops are required to withdraw from Finger 4 to the area of Finger 3, say government sources.

In violating the LAC that lay along Finger 8, and taking control of the north bank of the Pangong Tso till Finger 4, the Chinese intruded 8 km into Indian-claimed territory. With the terms of disengagement requiring them to withdraw by 2 km to Finger 5, PLA troops will remain about 6 km inside Indian-claimed territory.

On the other hand, the withdrawal of Indian troops by 2 km from Finger 4 to Finger 3, will increase the depth of territory lost to 10 km.

Even more worrying, Chinese soldiers are reportedly withdrawing only from the banks of Pangong Tso. The bunkers and defensive works the PLA has built on the dominating heights above the lake remain occupied by the Chinese, giving them a clear view of Indian activity as far as the west end of the Pangong Tso lake.

As Business Standard reported earlier (July 9, Withdrawal from Galwan Valley puts Indian troops further from LAC) India was also disadvantaged in the earlier disengagement agreement negotiated for the Galwan River valley. The buffer zone agreement for that sector effectively involved the concession by India of one km of territory on the Galwan River.
 

zgx09t

Junior Member
Registered Member
Overall, the disengagement progress is still ongoing, and it is too early to jump to any conclusions. However it is funny how some members here are so quick to declare victory for China, when it is clear that currently china has retreated the furthest, and India's infrastructure projects connecting DBO road are secure.

17 confirmed non-combat deaths would have put any first grade competent military to full soul searching to fix whatever went wrong asap.
Maybe that's why Indian Army is quite all the while clueless are measuring yards and decibels here.

Read most recent China's military white paper. PLA command structure since 2016 is designed to project power, beyond China proper's landmass, albeit still a work in progress capacity wise but full intent and mission statement is there. It seems Indian Army is still fighting the last '62 war campaign. Realistically, a land-based war with India, short and high intensity in nature, is fully thought out and incorporated in training and exercises in different campaign scenarios. One example in point, Qingtongxia combined joint training base in western command theatre and the nearby replica of Aksai Chin. Current scenario is far below the threshold of bringing out full fire and thunder. If it comes, it would not be to that 30 man camp.
 

Brumby

Major
Sad to see that some members are already resorting to personal abuse rather than respectfully disputing the evidence I posted.

Welcome to SDF. In an open forum it is refreshing to get a counter point of view or else we are simply just existing in an echo chamber.

Ignore those members who cannot engage in a mature manner as they will try to get you banned through inflammatory comments. Just stay cool and remain professional in your engagements.
 
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