Ladakh Flash Point

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longmarch

Junior Member
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The trade war US launched against China emboldened India. Japan and Taiwan also got emboldened.
India's calculation is plain and simple. They believe they can benefit from industry relocation and military aid. They also want to push Chinese businesses out by rezorting to protectionism.
For China, apparently PLA doesn't know how to fight modern information warfare. They don't know how to fight from position of strength. Their response can be characterized as "bizarre" at the best.
But Modi is also a pighead. Indians hail the economic development under his reign, reality is the gap between India and China becomes wider and wider.
 

tallgamer

New Member
Registered Member
p.s. There is obviously a friendly affinity between China and Pakistan, their people and especially their militaries. I know this first hand as I lived in China for a year, and people there hold the China-Pakistan friendship in high regard. We've also seen the close relations between the serving officers of both nations when they work with each other on joint-exercises. But that doesn't mean that China's entire regional strategy is determined by Pakistan's concerns. And this move in Ladakh is clearly a long-term strategic maneuver by China. This stuff doesn't happen randomly. A lot of thought and preparation went into this from the Chinese leadership (both political and military) as Sawhney has made very clear.
Thank you. A frank assessment of the realities between India and China as opposed to the incessant trolling here.
Completely agree that this was not a knee jerk reaction to anything India did , including the reorganization of the state into a UT.
As twiddle has pointed out the last serious conflict took place in 2013 when the pacifist Manmohan Singh was in charge of India.
Now we come to the aim behind the action.
India and Pakistan have more or less reconciled to keeping the parts of kashmir under their control. Kargil was the last attempt at redrawing the actual area of control. Some populist statements notwithstanding from both sides for public consumption. But both have not taken any defence related steps in this direction.
But with China their target is a opaque box.
Are they actually after redrawing the LAC ?
Is land grab of arunachal pradesh a serious aim ?
Is ladakh also a serious aim ?
Or are these pressure tactics to keep India away from a western alliance ? Which incidentally failed miserably.
No one knows. Atleast on this site. And i suspect not in China and India, except a small coterie in China.
We dismiss the possibility of large land grabs in the 21st century as non viable but china has built artificial islands 1000s of kms away from its mainland to bolster its claim in the south China sea.
I suspect India is going to be surprised, as usual, by the scale of Chinese ambition to land grab.
Previously i would have blamed xi for the tensions on China's borders but India's experience shows that its just a continuation of old Chinese nibbling, to expand its borders.
The reason Manmohan proposed setting up a mountain corp in 2013 after a large Chinese incursion. It was supposed to have 80k personnel but was never financed and was slashed to 10k at the moment.
This recent incursion was a badly planned repeat of 2013 and just hardened attitudes in India.
China should have occupied ladakh taking advantage of the lightly defended status but instead has just woken India up. A half hearted blunder in my opinion.
Now the mountain corp is being strengthened. India is advancing relations with usa.
Reducing dependency on Chinese imports.
And arming itself at a more rapid pace.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Is land grab of arunachal pradesh a serious aim ?
Is ladakh also a serious aim ?
Xi has made it clear, not an inch of Chinese territory will be given up.

"Or are these pressure tactics to keep India away from a western alliance ? Which incidentally failed miserably."
Joining an colonial alliance to harm China is only going to harm India. You have been warned.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The trade war US launched against China emboldened India. Japan and Taiwan also got emboldened.
India's calculation is plain and simple. They believe they can benefit from industry relocation and military aid. They also want to push Chinese businesses out by rezorting to protectionism.
For China, apparently PLA doesn't know how to fight modern information warfare. They don't know how to fight from position of strength. Their response can be characterized as "bizarre" at the best.
But Modi is also a pighead. Indians hail the economic development under his reign, reality is the gap between India and China becomes wider and wider.
What would you have done differently if you were the PLA.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
With regards to demarcation, it is not just India that has certain conditions. Chona has also refused to sign any demarcation deal without India ceding Tawang. This is because due to Tawang's cultural significance to Tibetans, China feels Tibet is incomplete without it. Some small slivers of land in ladakh are inconsequential in comparison, as you ppinted out.

China itself has said it doesn't consider the Arunachal-Tibet border as part of the LAC. it only recognizes an IB with Assam and other states.

Yes you're right in adding Tawang holding significance to China. The demarcation requirements from India is getting Aksai Chin and for China is getting parts of Tawang. Demarcation offers from China obviously include Aksai Chin and Tawang but gives up slithers of land. I feel this is due to China understanding it has greater bargaining power. It doesn't surprise me that demarcation has not been possible.

It should still be added that without demarcation, no diplomatic solution is possible either. The best we can manage to keep this thing down and India from acting against China's wishes would be to have a total buffer on the remaining 20%.
 
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tallgamer

New Member
Registered Member
Xi has made it clear, not an inch of Chinese territory will be given up.

"Or are these pressure tactics to keep India away from a western alliance ? Which incidentally failed miserably."
Joining an colonial alliance to harm China is only going to harm India. You have been warned.
Will twit your warning to modi.
For clarity is this the territory presently under China or the areas claimed by it under its glorious past ?
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
India and Pakistan have more or less reconciled to keeping the parts of kashmir under their control.
Pakistan hasn't 'reconciled' to anything of the sort.

But with China their target is a opaque box.
Which is exactly how it should be. It's a sign of good strategy.

Sawhney has speculated on this issue and has been cited on this thread many times. You can refer to his analysis.
 

Nobaron

Junior Member
Registered Member
View attachment 76322


Some BJP members dreaming big. Some jai hinds think it's a good thing Pakistan and Bangladesh were separated from India. Some carry the dream of expanding India but don't want to deal with the citizens in those lands they want to expand into.

In any case, India isn't even going to be taking PoK let alone Pakistan, Bangladesh and parts of China.
Tell you what, I actually like that map. Massive improvement from that orange juice spill over pptx, the black looks good, though couldn't quite figure out whats that coin thingy in middle.
I also agree with akhand bharat. I always told we need to take entire bharat & make it part of our country, Bharat state will make nice addition to BDad. Hindu free akhand bharat is only way forward. We need to make sure we return it to it's former glory under our rule.Of course we are open to negotiation with our Chinese friends.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
This recent incursion was a badly planned repeat of 2013 and just hardened attitudes in India.
China should have occupied ladakh taking advantage of the lightly defended status but instead has just woken India up. A half hearted blunder in my opinion.
Now the mountain corp is being strengthened. India is advancing relations with usa.
Reducing dependency on Chinese imports.
And arming itself at a more rapid pace.
You confuse China with India! China was referred to as the sleeping giant; nobody cares if India's asleep, awake, drunk, sick, or arguing with itself because it can do nothing. China doesn't have to take advantage of any situation because it can take any territory from India whenever it wants, and as the days go on, the disparity in military power only widens in China's favor. India's mountain corps and every corp are made up of people who run to their own deaths rather than fight, then get medals of honor for those surviving. India's relationship with the US is pointless because neither can do anything about China; the US just said they aren't even interested in any free trade agreements with India. Even an America desperate for allies against China shows India its cold ass LOL. India cannot arm itself at any meaningful pace compared to China because its economy is poor and it depends on expensive imported weapons while China builds up a storm with its own industries supported by its own economy, the largest in the world by PPP, which is the accurate measure for domestic goods. You'd like to believe that India is reducing its economic dependence on China but a quick search found that Indian trade with China flew up 62% for the first half of 2021.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
As I said, you live in your own little bubble that protects you from the real trends of the world. You can't even get easily Google-able information like trade data correct.
 

davidau

Senior Member
Registered Member
You confuse China with India! China was referred to as the sleeping giant; nobody cares if India's asleep, awake, drunk, sick, or arguing with itself because it can do nothing. China doesn't have to take advantage of any situation because it can take any territory from India whenever it wants, and as the days go on, the disparity in military power only widens in China's favor. India's mountain corps and every corp are made up of people who run to their own deaths rather than fight, then get medals of honor for those surviving. India's relationship with the US is pointless because neither can do anything about China; the US just said they aren't even interested in any free trade agreements with India. Even an America desperate for allies against China shows India its cold ass LOL. India cannot arm itself at any meaningful pace compared to China because its economy is poor and it depends on expensive imported weapons while China builds up a storm with its own industries supported by its own economy, the largest in the world by PPP, which is the accurate measure for domestic goods. You'd like to believe that India is reducing its economic dependence on China but a quick search found that Indian trade with China flew up 62% for the first half of 2021.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
As I said, you live in your own little bubble that protects you from the real trends of the world. You can't even get easily Google-able information like trade data correct.
You will be wasting your Qi to debate with this arsehole.
 
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