J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[Mearex]

Is this bait?

in what way? They asked if I was referring to cobras and falling leaves when I said high alpha maneuvers, then I said that my expectations weren't that high, and clarified exactly what I was referring to and gave 2 good examples of what I meant. The first of which, at least, is a very standard high alpha turn.

 

[latenlazy]

in what way? They asked if I was referring to cobras and falling leaves when I said high alpha maneuvers, then I said that my expectations weren't that high, and clarified exactly what I was referring to and gave 2 good examples of what I meant. The former, at least, is a very standard high alpha turn.

The PLA isn’t obliged to show you the maximum maneuver limits of their planes lol. They’ve never even let their Flankers do cobras. (You can now run around declaring that Sinoflankers can’t do cobras ;P)

 

[TheWanderWit]

in what way? They asked if I was referring to cobras and falling leaves when I said high alpha maneuvers, then I said that my expectations weren't that high, and clarified exactly what I was referring to and gave 2 good examples of what I meant. The first of which, at least, is a very standard high alpha turn.

Because your sentiments are extremely fanboyism-esque and nonsensical. So your standard of China having an "air superiority fighter" is if the J-20 can do certain maneuvers in the air at air shows that you specifically want to see it do? Come on man. Be serious.

 

[Mearex]

The PLA isn’t obliged to show you the maximum maneuver limits of their planes lol. They’ve never even let their Flankers do cobras. (You can now run around declaring that Sinoflankers can’t do cobras ;P)

and neither is the USAF, which is known to be extremely secretive until the recent B-21 and F-47 reveals. Those 2 maneuvers are probably not even close to what the F-22 is truly capable of

 

[latenlazy]

and neither is the USAF, which is known to be extremely secretive until the recent B-21 and F-47 reveals. Those 2 maneuvers are probably not even close to what the F-22 is truly capable of

The USAF has never been secretive about its fighters or their performance capability. If you only understand imaginary hype then the F-22’s performance envelopes are infinite actually. There are no limits to one’s imagination.

The F-47 isn’t “secretive”. It just barely exists.

 

[Mearex]

Because your sentiments are extremely fanboyism-esque and nonsensical. So your standard of China having an "air superiority fighter" is if the J-20 can do certain maneuvers in the air at air shows that you specifically want to see it do? Come on man. Be serious.

my standard of an air superiority fighter is a combat aircraft that is purpose built to take on other air superiority fighters like the F-22 and Su-57 (i know it's technically multirole but), and who can also survive incredibly hostile environments while engaging those targets

 

[latenlazy]

my standard of an air superiority fighter is a combat aircraft that is purpose built to take on other air superiority fighters like the F-22 and Su-57 (i know it's technically multirole but), and who can also survive incredibly hostile environments while engaging those targets

Your standard is a bunch of hype words with no fundamental understanding of how anything works.

 

[Mearex]

Your standard is a bunch of hype words with no fundamental understanding of how anything works.

Which word is a "hype word". You barge in here with one liners and personal attacks and criticize others for the level of discussion on this forum? I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm happy to take this discussion elsewhere.

Going back to high alpha maneuvers and the J-20, I think siegecrossbow should now know what I mean when I say high alpha. I'm not sure if the J-20 is optimized for sustained turn rates as opposed to instantaneous, but the fact of the matter is we've never seen it do anything remotely close to the 2 example maneuvers I showed.

 

[Blitzo]

Which word is a "hype word". You barge in here with one liners and personal attacks and criticize others for the level of discussion on this forum? I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm happy to take this discussion elsewhere.

Going back to high alpha maneuvers and the J-20, I think siegecrossbow should now know what I mean when I say high alpha. I'm not sure if the J-20 is optimized for sustained turn rates as opposed to instantaneous, but the fact of the matter is we've never seen it do anything remotely close to the 2 example maneuvers I showed.

No, you are the one who is barging in here making it sound like it is reasonable to expect any of the maneuvers you described as if it is an entitlement, and using your own visual confirmation in determining what the role of this aircraft is, as if there is not a decade of prior discussion on this topic.

 

[TheWanderWit]

my standard of an air superiority fighter is a combat aircraft that is purpose built to take on other air superiority fighters like the F-22 and Su-57 (i know it's technically multirole but), and who can also survive incredibly hostile environments while engaging those targets

And a J-20 would do that by utilizing networked assets together like KJ-500/3000s AEWs and other assets, launching BVR missiles from miles away, because that is what modern-day air combat actually is. Not operating by itself to "find" an adversaries air superiority fighter to "dogfight". That simply does not exist anymore. I don't know about you, but did you see any "dogfighting" in Pakistan's air skirmish with India? No. They were shooting down IAF fighters even while still residing in their own country's airspace.

Maneuverability tricks at air shows to put on a spectacle for crowds is not relevant towards actual combat capabilities.