Is Jiang Zemin Dead?

To put things into prospective I was born in HK and in the 33 years of my existence I spent half of it in HK, so I do know what's and what's not here, by my own eyes.

See, no doubt HK is all nice and shiny but that's the top 30% in general, what's left is all are woes that troubles all. To say the least, though HK has its triumphs time to time, you have to admit it really slipped, even if not to the degree I put it but close - living standard of the masses, labour rights, polarization of the society, supermarket tabolids became mainstream media - think I better leave out the political side, for I don't know where to start without sounds like ranting...

Tell me, with even its majority of educated elites can't master proper English (university grads I'm talking about) or proper mandarin; the only working logic of the masses is "get rich quick", worship shiny brands and feeds on celebrity gossips, this society can hardly be called sophiciated. True what brought froth such state of affair has a marid of reasons and factors but no denial of facts here. Of course, pursue for sophiciation is a luxury the mass can't really afford in such state.

So if to make everyone feels better I can apologize, for all that I'd suffer is just my pride and I can live with that...but as a native HK born, it hurt to go with the flow and not telling things "as-is"; and it's just my character to tell things as it is, not sugar coating it for anyone.

On this topic, let's say an incapacitated man on bed - physically dead or not - his existance is now reduced to a symbol of sort for the faction he represent. But fortunately for PRC, or at least for the CPC, the tier of succession has been largely finalized and pseudo-regimentalized since Jiang left his offical post, so his death will have minimal to no impact in reality.

Whats so special about the 90th anniversay? Generally speaking I would have thought 100 was the milestone.
Holding back the news that Jiang had died(if that was the case) until after the celebrations seems to me like step back to the past of the Mao Stalin Brezhnev periods and it wasnt as if he was the current leader.

I was also reading some reviews on the film they made as part of the celebrations "Beginning of the Great Revival" Some comments claim that currently it is the only picture allowed to be shown. All other movie released have been postponed so as not to provide a distraction. ........ really?

Wow... overnight, and so many things happened here.

Personally, I think it turns out that this thread, have became a better reading material, than day 1, of which gossip about romors.

In all, anything happened in China mainland, have had being painted with color by some, I expect no difference this time. China is supposed to "fall apart" some 20 years already yet it never happens, Jiang's fade away do not add to the entertain either, no matter how many wish it.

MwRYum said:

To put things into prospective I was born in HK and in the 33 years of my existence I spent half of it in HK, so I do know what's and what's not here, by my own eyes.

See, no doubt HK is all nice and shiny but that's the top 30% in general, what's left is all are woes that troubles all. To say the least, though HK has its triumphs time to time, you have to admit it really slipped, even if not to the degree I put it but close - living standard of the masses, labour rights, polarization of the society, supermarket tabolids became mainstream media - think I better leave out the political side, for I don't where to start without sound like ranting...

Tell me, with even its majority of educated elites can't master proper English (university grads I'm talking about) or proper mandarin; the only working logic of the masses is "get rich quick", worship shiny brands and feeds on celebrity gossips, this society can hardly be called sophiciated. True what brought froth such state of affair has a marid of reasons and factors but no denial of facts here. Of course, pursue for sophiciation is a luxury the mass can't really afford in such state.

So if to make everyone feels better I can apologize, for all that I'd suffer is just my pride and I can live with that...but as a native HK born, it hurt to go with the flow and not telling things "as-is"; and it's just my character to tell things as it is, not sugar coating it for anyone.

On this topic, let's say an incapacitated man on bed - physically dead or not - his existance is now reduced to a symbol of sort for the faction he represent. But fortunately for PRC, or at least for the CPC, the tier of succession has been largely finalized and pseudo-regimentalized since Jiang left his offical post, so his death will have minimal to no impact in reality.

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Understood. However there are better ways to go about the issue than name calling. Regionalism is not just a problem in Hong Kong but in Shanghai and Beijing now as well. My point is that we are not much better than the prejudiced people if we call them names, which is against forum rules to start with.

bladerunner said:

Whats so special about the 90th anniversay? Generally speaking I would have thought 100 was the milestone.
Holding back the news that Jiang had died(if that was the case) until after the celebrations seems to me like step back to the past of the Mao Stalin Brezhnev periods and it wasnt as if he was the current leader.

I was also reading some reviews on the film they made as part of the celebrations "Beginning of the Great Revival" Some comments claim that currently it is the only picture allowed to be shown. All other movie released have been postponed so as not to provide a distraction. ........ really?

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For one, that makes the CPC the oldest and the largest communist party that still in power; secondly, Taiwan, or ROC take your pick, is celebrating its 100th anniversary, being rival and all CPC can't do theirs without some fanfare, naturally - October 1st parade is out because it breaks the rules (now they do this every 10 years).

As for "that" movie...everyone would tell you what it really for, and those I know would rather watch Transformer 3 or Harry Potter instead, hehehehe...

MwRYum said:

As for "that" movie...everyone would tell you what it really for, and those I know would rather watch Transformer 3 or Harry Potter instead, hehehehe...

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Who goes to the movies in China anyway? At 60 yuan a ticket, it's certainly not worth it when you can get a pirated DVD for 2 yuan on the street corner.

Some of the pirated DVDs I purchased didnt work

bladerunner said:

Some of the pirated DVDs I purchased didnt work

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No refund, I guess?

solarz said:

Who goes to the movies in China anyway? At 60 yuan a ticket, it's certainly not worth it when you can get a pirated DVD for 2 yuan on the street corner.

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No offence, although what you said happens a lot, what you said was still categorizing people like "ahh, they are that kind of buch bla bla bla...", which just now heated up in the previous postes debate.

I can felt MwRYum's sentiment regarding the "core issue" of the debate, I am not surprised regionalism simply exists universly. Marseilles people and Paris people don't get along; Detroiter didn't have a hight regards among New Yorkers; Northeastern Japanese being "alienized" by their own kins; I guess Scottish & English is also a given... The thing is, talking about the flaws of certain group of people, dose get you into trouble, despite no intention of bashing at first place.

I think this thread would eventually cool down, just like the next-door OBL's thread (which heated up tensions also). The point is that we good members of SDF are not necessary to have emotional attachment in our OTHER day-to-day, high quality posts, nor do we need to emotionally "spit certain members credits" from now on.

Otherwise, go take a hike at other forums, right everyone?

MwRYum said:

To put things into prospective I was born in HK and in the 33 years of my existence I spent half of it in HK, so I do know what's and what's not here, by my own eyes.

See, no doubt HK is all nice and shiny but that's the top 30% in general, what's left is all are woes that troubles all. To say the least, though HK has its triumphs time to time, you have to admit it really slipped, even if not to the degree I put it but close - living standard of the masses, labour rights, polarization of the society, supermarket tabolids became mainstream media - think I better leave out the political side, for I don't know where to start without sounds like ranting...

Tell me, with even its majority of educated elites can't master proper English (university grads I'm talking about) or proper mandarin; the only working logic of the masses is "get rich quick", worship shiny brands and feeds on celebrity gossips, this society can hardly be called sophiciated. True what brought froth such state of affair has a marid of reasons and factors but no denial of facts here. Of course, pursue for sophiciation is a luxury the mass can't really afford in such state.

So if to make everyone feels better I can apologize, for all that I'd suffer is just my pride and I can live with that...but as a native HK born, it hurt to go with the flow and not telling things "as-is"; and it's just my character to tell things as it is, not sugar coating it for anyone.

On this topic, let's say an incapacitated man on bed - physically dead or not - his existance is now reduced to a symbol of sort for the faction he represent. But fortunately for PRC, or at least for the CPC, the tier of succession has been largely finalized and pseudo-regimentalized since Jiang left his offical post, so his death will have minimal to no impact in reality.

Click to expand...

There's a difference between criticizing your own people because you know where they fail, versus calling them hillbillies. I've mentioned up there, I criticize them too because I know what they are, and yes I whole-heartedly agree HK has lost a lot of it.
At the end of the day I'm still proud to be from where I am, but I do see what you saw, and it's disappointing as well. I can only say, that I think HK's phenomenon is nothing out of ordinary of any modernized societies. We indeed to carry bits of unique problems in our societies that others may not have, but for most part if you think about it, "living standard of the masses, labour rights, polarization of the society, supermarket tabolids became mainstream media - think I better leave out the political side,"..all exists in the West too. I even believe some of these problems may have been inherited from the West(not blaming them, but my definition being, as HK is a product out of British/Western systems, it won't be surprising that they not only share similar characteristics in many areas, but also flaws)
As for English, I agree, but also think it's explainable as well. Even if preliminary education did provide English training, it means nothing when outside of classes you speak Canto again. Mandarin is of true concern, but again, I don't think it's anything to worry about as exposure to China will gradually lead HK to become more and more Mandarin-proficient; I see this from cultural analytical perspective.

As for get rich quick, you're probably mentioning the Gen Y and after. Being a Gen Y myself, I'd also admit the truth to it that it's a phenomenon, but I see it more than what it seems to be: One must understand, as a society completes modernization or development, the nature of the problems and opportunities of this society would have changed. This results from growth, abundance of wealth, availability of resources, materialistic possession, technology, education, and a shifting market. Whereas the HK of the '60s might consist of more poor people, opportunities are rather, easier, because one can get by just simply as fishing off a sampan, or start a bank. If Richard Lee is born in '86 instead of whichever year he's born in, he probably won't enjoy a success that he does right now. Also, where Gen X or Baby Boomers may not care for ipods or facebok or much of any materialistic wealth during their youth(they can't attempt to care; those things don't even exist yet), Gen Y and beyond are gifted with these things the day they are born. It might be easier for Baby boomers and the likes to get through a day without facebook or anything, but for Gen Y's culture, technology has become a necessity. When your peers, social networks are connected in this way, it's not unusual you're part of it. This is the difference of living vs growing up in the Information Age. In addition, the bars have risen for today's generations. My example of sampan served that purpose.

As for celebrity gossips and stuff, especially with the flux of many young girls doing modeling as part-time, I'd think it's also the fruits of the entertainment industry, immaturity, and the negative outcomes of materialistic wealth and fashion glitz. Cantopop sucked these days, and every year, there are so many new "celebrities" and models entering the industry. This population group entered these industries for the sake of what you've said, the unrealistic pursuit for fast money, materialistic lifestyle, etc. (This is why I hated the media and HK paparazzis. I also think HK paparazzis are some people in this society with the lowest standards of moral and ethics, but I've gone over that before already, so I won't get started on it again.

In a sense I'm just like you. I criticize whoever's wrong, as I won't hold back neither. The difference is, I won't stand for insults and such, and simultaneously I won't disrespect a whole group of people by generalizations. That's just shallow and ignorant.