Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

gelgoog said:

The problem with designing an aircraft like this is it will be obsolete once it is ready even if everything went ok.
India would be better off either purchasing aircraft or licensing production outright.
India would need to design a 5+ or 6th gen aircraft if they don't want the design to be obsolete on arrival.

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First i want to see them fly a proper armed UCAV. Their Rustom 2 /3 whatever.
Then let's see if they can indigenize the Tejas Mark 1/ 1A whatever ( except the engines).

Then let's wait for the tests on their TEDBF fighter. I'm guessing it'll take atleast 5 years for all the testing to conclude. We are looking at a new fighter jet that needs to survive the punishments of ski-jump takeoff and landing. 5 years is not enough tbf.

Forget about 5th gen. It depends on economy and technological might. Unless they want to try being the Iranian stealth Q313, an aircraft atleast the level of FC-31 first prototype would take 2030.

Grey_Lie said:

So, going by various forms of info. Tenative schedules for Indian Aviation Platforms are : -

2021 : Ghatak UCAV/AURA/SWIFT scaled-down prototype first flight

Metal-cutting for Tejas Mark 2 prototype (This one should be done as well looking at the interviews)

Orders for Mark 1A (This one is done)

2022 - Tejas Mark 2/MWF prototype roll out
2023 - Tejas Mark 2/MWF First Flight
2024 : Orders for FoC are delivered. (which I kinda doubt). Deliveries begin for MK1A

2025 - AMCA prototype probably....

And then there is a big gap till 2028.

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And on top of these own developments there still procurements in the making for additional "interim types".
Yes, in summary I come to that list (based on a post in the German FF by 'Edding321'):

• Tejas Mk.1: (IOC / FOC) - planned 16 + 15 pieces by 2021 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1A: 73 units planned until 2025 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1T (AT) trainer: 10 planned (within the latest 83 Mk1A order)
• Tejas MK.2: planned from 2026 on (?) (this version should be at least equivalent to the Gripen-E)
• M-MRCA 2.0: running RFI for 114 jets (F-16 Blk. 70/F-21, ...)
• TEDBF (Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale M for the IN as a replacement for the Mig-29K from 2030s ?)
• eventually an interim naval-M-MRCA: running RFI for XXX jets (F/A-18E/F, Rafale-M ...)
• ORCA (or a so to speak an IAF TEDBF): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale for the IAF as a replacement for the Mig-29, Mirage 2000 from 2030s ?)
• AMCA the 5th generation program: from 2035 (?)

And again, I don't want them any harm but given all my experience after watching the Indian aviation scene since decades and given the discrepancy between "claims and announcements" vs "fact and results" I have simply NO hope that this can be achieved, maybe none if they stick to all of them.

Deino said:

eventually an interim naval-M-MRCA: running RFI for XXX jets (F/A-18E/F, Rafale-M ...)

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I don't think Rafale-M fits on the elevators of Vikrant

Deino said:

And on top of these own developments there still procurements in the making for additional "interim types".
Yes, in summary I come to that list (based on a post in the German FF by 'Edding321'):

• Tejas Mk.1: (IOC / FOC) - planned 16 + 15 pieces by 2021 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1A: 73 units planned until 2025 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1T (AT) trainer: 10 planned (within the latest 83 Mk1A order)
• Tejas MK.2: planned from 2026 on (?) (this version should be at least equivalent to the Gripen-E)
• M-MRCA 2.0: running RFI for 114 jets (F-16 Blk. 70/F-21, ...)
• TEDBF (Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale M for the IN as a replacement for the Mig-29K from 2030s ?)
• eventually an interim naval-M-MRCA: running RFI for XXX jets (F/A-18E/F, Rafale-M ...)
• ORCA (or a so to speak an IAF TEDBF): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale for the IAF as a replacement for the Mig-29, Mirage 2000 from 2030s ?)
• AMCA the 5th generation program: from 2035 (?)

And again, I don't want them any harm but given all my experience after watching the Indian aviation scene since decades and given the discrepancy between "claims and announcements" vs "fact and results" I have simply NO hope that this can be achieved, maybe none if they stick to all of them.

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Ya ORCA is not going to happen. Tejas Mark1, Mark 1A are of the same family so can't be considered individual. MWF standard Fighter are going to be produced from the start. No prototype's.

Deino said:

And on top of these own developments there still procurements in the making for additional "interim types".
Yes, in summary I come to that list (based on a post in the German FF by 'Edding321'):

• Tejas Mk.1: (IOC / FOC) - planned 16 + 15 pieces by 2021 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1A: 73 units planned until 2025 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1T (AT) trainer: 10 planned (within the latest 83 Mk1A order)
• Tejas MK.2: planned from 2026 on (?) (this version should be at least equivalent to the Gripen-E)
• M-MRCA 2.0: running RFI for 114 jets (F-16 Blk. 70/F-21, ...)
• TEDBF (Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale M for the IN as a replacement for the Mig-29K from 2030s ?)
• eventually an interim naval-M-MRCA: running RFI for XXX jets (F/A-18E/F, Rafale-M ...)
• ORCA (or a so to speak an IAF TEDBF): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale for the IAF as a replacement for the Mig-29, Mirage 2000 from 2030s ?)
• AMCA the 5th generation program: from 2035 (?)

And again, I don't want them any harm but given all my experience after watching the Indian aviation scene since decades and given the discrepancy between "claims and announcements" vs "fact and results" I have simply NO hope that this can be achieved, maybe none if they stick to all of them.

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ORCA is not happening most probably. And TEDBF won't come this decade.

>Tejas Mk.1: (IOC / FOC) - planned 16 + 15 pieces by 2021 (?)
>Tejas Mk.1A: 73 units planned until 2025 (?)

Lol. HAL has delivered like 4 planes till now. Maybe they will deliver 3 more in this financial year. All Tejas MK1 FoC in 2021 is a comedy.

Tejas Mark 1A might begin from 2024/2025 depending on HALs mood (they will have to build the infra as well. Some people say LCA MK1A will replace the Su-30 production line. So there is that) but it won't end till 2028. That's why Indians are sweating. No matter what they do, it will take time.

And even if Tejas Mark 2 and AMCA by some miracle from God comes... You got to remember Indian procurement and bureaucracy is long and crazy. Just 1-2 years extra for procurement delays.

Deino said:

And on top of these own developments there still procurements in the making for additional "interim types".
Yes, in summary I come to that list (based on a post in the German FF by 'Edding321'):

• Tejas Mk.1: (IOC / FOC) - planned 16 + 15 pieces by 2021 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1A: 73 units planned until 2025 (?)
• Tejas Mk.1T (AT) trainer: 10 planned (within the latest 83 Mk1A order)
• Tejas MK.2: planned from 2026 on (?) (this version should be at least equivalent to the Gripen-E)
• M-MRCA 2.0: running RFI for 114 jets (F-16 Blk. 70/F-21, ...)
• TEDBF (Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale M for the IN as a replacement for the Mig-29K from 2030s ?)
• eventually an interim naval-M-MRCA: running RFI for XXX jets (F/A-18E/F, Rafale-M ...)
• ORCA (or a so to speak an IAF TEDBF): no time-frame (this type should be at least equivalent to the Rafale for the IAF as a replacement for the Mig-29, Mirage 2000 from 2030s ?)
• AMCA the 5th generation program: from 2035 (?)

And again, I don't want them any harm but given all my experience after watching the Indian aviation scene since decades and given the discrepancy between "claims and announcements" vs "fact and results" I have simply NO hope that this can be achieved, maybe none if they stick to all of them.

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73 Tejas Mk1A by 2025 seems unrealistic unless they expand the production lines. Right now it is 8 (?) per year. High chances that they'd miss 2025 ( only 4 years to go). Only 4 production lines till now (?).
73 Mk1A + Mk1T likely to see the production line occupied beyond 2025.
Tejas Mk2 is likely to be made. Prototypes expected before 2025. Likely made to be in competition for the mmrca ?
TEDBF hasn't got Navy approval, all things considered it would see active service by 2028 - 2030.
ORCA has been cancelled ( or so I read from the comments in other forums). TEDBF has replaced ORCA.
AMCA prototype may surface around 2030 ( due to political pressures?) but it is likely to be "hollow". The IOC for AMCA be gained by 2035.

Xsizor said:

ORCA has been cancelled ( or so I read from the comments in other forums). TEDBF has replaced ORCA.

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Thanks, and that's why I said "ORCA (or a so to speak an IAF TEDBF)" for the IAF!

Grey_Lie said:

ORCA is not happening most probably. And TEDBF won't come this decade.


Tejas Mark 1A might begin from 2024/2025 depending on HALs mood (they will have to build the infra as well. Some people say LCA MK1A will replace the Su-30 production line. So there is that) but it won't end till 2028. That's why Indians are sweating. No matter what they do, it will take time.

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Likely that they are developing TEDBF first then ORCA.
TEDBF will certainly come this decade but I dont think itll enter active service until the near end of this decade.

Tejas Mark2 is bigger than Mark1A. And therefore it's likely designed to compete in the MMRCA.

Sukhoi production line would never be shut down. There are talks of "Super Sukhoi" in other Indian websites.

There's a method to the madness but I don't think they can achieve it due to past record.

Xsizor said:

Likely that they are developing TEDBF first then ORCA.
TEDBF will certainly come this decade but I dont think itll enter active service until the near end of this decade.

Tejas Mark2 is bigger than Mark1A. And therefore it's likely designed to compete in the MMRCA.

Sukhoi production line would never be shut down. There are talks of "Super Sukhoi" in other Indian websites.

There's a method to the madness but I don't think they can achieve it due to past record.

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Ya IAF already rejected the ORCA.