I'm sure the mainlanders who went "out on the ground" had their worldviews challenged when the mobs beat them to a bloody pulp
Hong-Kong Protests
- Thread starter Pika
- Start date
I'm sure the mainlanders who went "out on the ground" had their worldviews challenged when the mobs beat them to a bloody pulp
Great. Do it again.
Make sure your different opinions aren't biased.The bigotry you think you face are simply, to some extend, resistance to the very myopic view of things. Proponents of western democracy and model ( including freedoms) do not take into account China's requirements of historical debt to its people, value of preserving its civilization, culture, traditions and overall desire for advocating the merit of its own indigenous thoughts and views.
No member in this thread, who is so called "pro-beijing" has disputed the merit of "Freedoms". It is, if I shall speak for some of these members, a common interest to have Chinese people enjoy maximum of freedoms possible. What they dispute and debate is if the western nations, who have had a well recorded history of subjugation, cultural dilution and racist, religious supremacist views, are pushing these ideas of "Freedom" and "Democracy" with full respect to Chinese religions, culture, traditions and their dreams. History tells otherwise.
Humans are very tribal. Sadly, if China ever adopted democracy and Freedoms, the Chinese culture will get subjugated and promise to its civilization and people get tainted. I have no doubt that China will become a very rich, upper middle class nation IF China's control went to the Nationalists after the civil war and later full democratization and Free market economics were realized.The west would have poured its many billions to ensure that China properly tackle the Soviet menace.
But prosperity is not everything. Money isn't all. China's values and dreams need to be respected. I'd rather have a China that is poor like North Korea and in-control of its own destiny than rich like South Korea and become no much more than a Banana republic of sorts making Electronics and Ships for the "preeminent" civilizations and nations of the west who have already secured its position.
Russia is both a democracy and isn't what the U.S.S.R was once. But yet, U.S and the West sanctions it. One could debate to the end why. But don't you think there is some merit to the fact that Russia has huge natural resources and could destroy U.S prosperity and hegemony a little bit through its resistance to the Petrodollar system ? Can you guarantee that China would be spared even it was democratic?
Lets take India. Contrary to the popular beliefs, India also harbors the dreams of being great power. The only reason U.S&Co hasn't sanctioned India, a democracy, is that they view India as this gladiator against China. India's actions in Kashmir could be termed a legitimate reason to enact sanctions. I am promising you- once India becomes powerful, and threatens the U.S led and west dominated order, India would be confronted too.
I want a China that would disagree for the heck of it RATHER than simply be a consumerist Christianized and westernized utopia whose citizens scoff at hearing tales of its once great Emperors and empires.
No member in this thread, who is so called "pro-beijing" has disputed the merit of "Freedoms". It is, if I shall speak for some of these members, a common interest to have Chinese people enjoy maximum of freedoms possible. What they dispute and debate is if the western nations, who have had a well recorded history of subjugation, cultural dilution and racist, religious supremacist views, are pushing these ideas of "Freedom" and "Democracy" with full respect to Chinese religions, culture, traditions and their dreams. History tells otherwise.
Humans are very tribal. Sadly, if China ever adopted democracy and Freedoms, the Chinese culture will get subjugated and promise to its civilization and people get tainted. I have no doubt that China will become a very rich, upper middle class nation IF China's control went to the Nationalists after the civil war and later full democratization and Free market economics were realized.The west would have poured its many billions to ensure that China properly tackle the Soviet menace.
But prosperity is not everything. Money isn't all. China's values and dreams need to be respected. I'd rather have a China that is poor like North Korea and in-control of its own destiny than rich like South Korea and become no much more than a Banana republic of sorts making Electronics and Ships for the "preeminent" civilizations and nations of the west who have already secured its position.
Russia is both a democracy and isn't what the U.S.S.R was once. But yet, U.S and the West sanctions it. One could debate to the end why. But don't you think there is some merit to the fact that Russia has huge natural resources and could destroy U.S prosperity and hegemony a little bit through its resistance to the Petrodollar system ? Can you guarantee that China would be spared even it was democratic?
Lets take India. Contrary to the popular beliefs, India also harbors the dreams of being great power. The only reason U.S&Co hasn't sanctioned India, a democracy, is that they view India as this gladiator against China. India's actions in Kashmir could be termed a legitimate reason to enact sanctions. I am promising you- once India becomes powerful, and threatens the U.S led and west dominated order, India would be confronted too.
I want a China that would disagree for the heck of it RATHER than simply be a consumerist Christianized and westernized utopia whose citizens scoff at hearing tales of its once great Emperors and empires.
solarz
Brigadier
Do you know why this thread is so active? If we were solely "pro-China" as you think, we would be cheering the rioters on.
Do you realize that months of rioting in HK has had less effect on the Mainland than the price of pork? The only thing you people are destroying is your own home. The rest of China is completely unaffected by whatever happens in HK. On the contrary, the destruction of HK would only benefit cities like my hometown of Shanghai. Objectively, I should laughing at the stupidity of HK right now.
Instead I am angry and disappointed because I cared about Hong Kong. I saw HKers as my brethren and it pained me to see them marching toward cliff.
No longer. This election has shown what HKers want, despite all common sense. I will leave them to their choice, and I will now only care about how this affects the rest of China as it plays out.
Yes, after this election, I now consider the majority of Hong Kongers to be mere squatters, awaiting eviction come 2047. This land do not belong to Hong Kongers only, it belongs to the whole Chinese nation. Those who feel that they belongs to the Chinese nation would be welcome to build a new Hong Kong, those that don't, then they should be weeded out. Meanwhile, if those rioters do not declare independance, then it's a slow rot to 2047. If they do declare, then it's spring cleaning right here right now.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
There will always be insults and hatred against those who are traitors to their own nation. This is exactly the same as how Americans feel about US citizens who join Al Qaida or ISIS; there will be a huge amount of "bigotry" against them and insults hurled at them. We are not impartial observers (although even the impartial would conclude the same seeing the behavior of the terrorists); we are patriots who love our nation and we despise its traitors. It is remarkable how difficult that is for Westerners to understand.
They'll be back? That's a "victory?" The CCP never went anywhere and ruled mightily as always. Only cockroaches/terrorists crawl away in hiding and then come back and then crawl away again... until one day they are squished. Or is the victory the damage they did to their own city? Because for some sort of "rebellion," they sure left the PLA garrison completely untouched. I wonder how low you will set the bar for victory in order to claim one because in the end, China will remain under the CCP, democracy-free, and Hong Kong will fall under its as well; lasting democracy or independence was never in the cards and are still not.
The last laugh? Now? Or in 2 years? LOLOL That should make you laugh harder than anything else. Is this how the West plans strategy? China plans things by the decade with goals for the century. 2047 for the complete handover of Hong Kong under Chinese control won't be for 27 years and you're talking about the "last laugh" within 2 years? Is the world ending??!! Truly boggles the mind how you "think"...
If you can't handle the heat here, go to Yahoo comments and bark like the rest of the uneducated lot by just calling everyone who isn't Western-brainwashed a 50-cent troll. You'll do good there
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Jura The idiot
General
Yesterday at 9:20 PM
Pro-establishment allies of Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam lament to her that voters punished them at polls for government’s handling of protests
other important points inside are about "if she would address the protesters’ five demands",
and "Of the 2.94 million people who voted on Sunday, 41 per cent backed pro-establishment candidates."
so follow the link if interested
and
Pro-establishment allies of Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam lament to her that voters punished them at polls for government’s handling of protests
- Chief executive says she has received no ‘instruction’ from central government on accountability for results
- Lam says vote suggests many people want an end to violence
other important points inside are about "if she would address the protesters’ five demands",
and "Of the 2.94 million people who voted on Sunday, 41 per cent backed pro-establishment candidates."
so follow the link if interested
Claims and facts do not have to match. The claims you purport to believe in and extrapolate from are anti-China spin and propaganda. Such as your next line...
What are you trying to say?
That's wonderful news for people who are already invested. Just another example among many around the world of the wealth, opportunity, and inequality gap created by globalization, financial manipulation, and governments catering to big money special interests. Nothing unique here.
A chain of wild leaps to flimsy conclusions. More things that do not have to match, things that correlate but are not cause-and-effect, and things that are not mutually exclusive. That the HK government caters to big money interests, that swaths of the HK populace are conflicted and idolize, fear, and resent big money interests all at the same time, thereby ripe for manipulation and perversion, that anti-establishment/China/CCP sentiments predate Chinese rule by decades, that anti-establishment/China/CCP groups are more competent than pro-establishment/China/CCP groups at politics, propaganda, and mobilization, that the HK government leadership is incompetent, and more.
Just another example of incompetence where the devil is in the details, for example worst possible timing to do it and no good reason to not do it before the situation deteriorated.
Another wild leap to a flimsy conclusion. The devil, or the god, is in the details. Will the special investigation be of just the police, or the rioters as well, or rioter supporters as well? Who will be the investigators? What is the investigation's powers? And more.
Another wild leap to an absurd conclusion, I will chalk it up to exasperation talk. This has nothing to do with the central government. Complete capitulation by one side or the other is neither possible nor probable. Decolonization with freedom and democracy is in place in HK and is a training of will as well as skill, the vast majority of HKers are still in training.
solarz
Brigadier
The problem is that they do not think.
solarz
Brigadier
In Weiqi, a few strategic pieces can lock down a region of the board such that no matter what moves your opponent makes there, they would still be doomed. Hong Kong is a piece of that board, and the PLA and the PAP are the two strategic pieces that locks HK down. The one prevents any armed foreign interference, and the other is there to swoop in the moment the HK government collapses. The greatest triumph of the terrorists would immediately turn into their downfall. It doesn't matter how much damage they do to the city, they are still doomed.