Hong-Kong Protests

KYli

Brigadier
furthermore, the riot card can only ever be played once. Yes, the supporters of the anti-establishment are tacitly supporting the rioting. However, youth rioting tends to be a psychological game rather than political. Kids grow up. What happened to the hippies and Vietnam war protesters? They became CEOs of today and supporters of Middle East invasions. There will always be some kind of youth movement every decade in any given place (90's anti-globalization, 00's anti-Iraq war, 10's climate change, etc.)

To go further into what SampanViking suggests, what if the anti-establishment carries their momentum and manages to control LegCo? If violence continues, then they are exposed for what they are. If they aren't, then they are tasked with a whole new agenda.

Political reforms are their top priority. Let's say they all agree on this and Central government decides to give it to them. Then what? Likely, the factionization will begin. There will be some pro-independence parties cropping up, there will be others that simply wanted popularly elected LegCo and fade away, Pro-Beijing parties will always be there.

What will challenges would a more "independently" (not independence) minded executive do if they wanted to distance themselves from mainland? First on the agenda would be self-sufficiency, so water and power would need to be localized. As before, desalination plant is expensive and large. Power can be cheap if you build coal, but super polluting, and take away useful land, the terrain is not good for solar and wind, and obviously nuclear is impossible. Beyond that, pursuing self-sufficiency would mean less money for building housing, the biggest issue for most HK citizens. Carrie Lam's Lantau Tomorrow cost 600 billion HKD and was laughed at, what would desalination cost for all of HK, they already pay 20 million HKD per year to GD for water, so the cost for desalination would be far higher and provide no housing. How do you sell this to the population? Another issue, if you decide to throw HKPF under the bus, what happens when they don't try to control the next riot? This certainly has happened in other places before.

In the end, as it was planned, Beijing sits in the catbird seat. I think they held off on any intervention because their planning horizon is so much further ahead than what we are used to in Western countries. The result of this election, it actually shows 1C2S is working. If they allow reforms, they look benevolent. If they continue with 1C2S as it is, then they are still allowing HK autonomy. The only way they can look bad is if they actively intervened (politically or paramilitary) which they did not. The anti-China arguments will dry up over time.

This movement is no longer anti-China but instead it is anti-Chinese. Just look at Taiwan today, I don't see much hope. Tribalism and populism are quite different from the counterculture movement such as hippie. For all these years, DPP has easily reignited resentment towards KMT and manipulated election result to win elections after elections even though it has failed miserably to lead Taiwan.

Same thing with the anti-establishment parties in HK, they are stuck with the radicals. They would get buried if they tried to cut tie with the radicals. From this election, it clearly shows that they are willing to discredit the election results if things didn't go in their way. Rumors are every where and people have started to surround many poll stations til most results showing their candidates are winning.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I think Alibaba’s planned HK listing will be the last time a major mainland company lists in the city.

If it wasn’t so close, I have a feeling even Alibaba would have pulled the plug and gone elsewhere. They may still do so, but the odds are low given the extremely short notice.

If these rioters and their supports hate mainland China so much, it’s only fair to not sully their pockets with mainland cash.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I think Alibaba’s planned HK listing will be the last time a major mainland company lists in the city.

If it wasn’t so close, I have a feeling even Alibaba would have pulled the plug and gone elsewhere. They may still do so, but the odds are low given the extremely short notice.

If these rioters and their supports hate mainland China so much, it’s only fair to not sully their pockets with mainland cash.

Why wouldn't they list in HK?

Alibaba is not giving money to HKers, they are asking HK investors and financial institutions to give them money. This very much falls in line with the hypothesis that Beijing is trying to migrate HK capitals into the Mainland.
 

ha, this guy representing hongkonger thinking.
He talks about how Soviet was so powerful and the democracy movement kept its momentum in Poland and one day Soviet collapsed. and Democracy in Poland survived and blossomed.
He talked about Hongkong should follow this example, waiting for China to collapse.

Fantasy!
when I entered a high school in 1986,

in then-Czechoslovakia the neo-Stalinists (who indirectly opposed Gorbachev) appeared to last forever,

and things had been the same for the next three years (despite changes beginning in Poland and Hungary since 1988);

it looked like an opposition would've been handled like in, you know, China -- this is what we actually feared in November of 1989 --

and, fast forward now, free elections were held at the time of my school-leaving exam in 1990

***

back to HK, I guess eyes will be on
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now
 

KYli

Brigadier
I think Alibaba’s planned HK listing will be the last time a major mainland company lists in the city.

If it wasn’t so close, I have a feeling even Alibaba would have pulled the plug and gone elsewhere. They may still do so, but the odds are low given the extremely short notice.

If these rioters and their supports hate mainland China so much, it’s only fair to not sully their pockets with mainland cash.

Not so sure that would be the case. The central government still prefers listing in SEHK than NYSE. Financial services would be the last sector that the central government would tackle. I foresee trading and logistics, tourism, and producer and professional services to be moving away from HK. The Pearl River Delta economic zone would try to lure away the producer and professional services from Hong Kong by giving incentives and tax exempt for companies to move their operations there. Same thing with trading and logistics. Tourism to HK would be tackled by lowering the VAT.
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Yesterday at 8:14 PM
Glob. Times pick:
Pro-establishment candidate Starry Lee Wai-king beats rival Leung Kwok-hung
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anyway tomorrow it's going to be interesting to see Xinhua damage control in
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section
and it's
HKSAR completes sixth-term district council election
Xinhua| 2019-11-25 16:31:41
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The counting of ballots in the Sixth-term District Council Ordinary Election of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) has completed as of Monday noon.

Polling for the election started at 7:30 a.m. local time and concluded at 10:30 p.m. local time on Sunday. According to the HKSAR Electoral Affairs Commission (EAC), 452 seats of 18 electoral districts have all been decided.

District councils are organizations at the district level that advise the HKSAR government on matters affecting the well-being of the residents and participate in the management of district affairs.

The district council election is the first poll held in the HKSAR after the now-withdrawn ordinance amendments concerning fugitives' transfers sparked unrest in Hong Kong.

In the past more than five months, rioters, in concert with external forces, have continuously committed and escalated violence, resulting in social and political confrontation, rift in social sentiment and setbacks in economy and people's livelihood. Months of social unrest has seriously disrupted the electoral process.

On the election day, some rioters harassed patriotic candidates. The most pressing task for Hong Kong at present is still to bring the violence and chaos to an end and restore order.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
when I entered a high school in 1986,

in then-Czechoslovakia the neo-Stalinists (who indirectly opposed Gorbachev) appeared to last forever,

and things had been the same for the next three years (despite changes beginning in Poland and Hungary since 1988);

it looked like an opposition would've been handled like in, you know, China -- this is what we actually feared in November of 1989 --

and, fast forward now, free elections were held at the time of my school-leaving exam in 1990

***

back to HK, I guess eyes will be on
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now
Your childhood in some failed eastern European statelet is irrelevant. The Soviet Union suffered decades of economic stagnation and gross mismanagement before the end and was riven by ethnic conflict from its foundation. China, on the other hand, has been a unified state with a common national identity for millennia. Add to that, it experienced the largest economic expansion in history over the past few decades and for all its problems remains the fastest growing economy on Earth.

If you're waiting for the prophesied "Coming Collapse of China", you're going to die waiting.
 
Your childhood in some failed eastern European statelet is irrelevant. The Soviet Union suffered decades of economic stagnation and gross mismanagement before the end and was riven by ethnic conflict from its foundation. China, on the other hand, has been a unified state with a common national identity for millennia. Add to that, it experienced the largest economic expansion in history over the past few decades and for all its problems remains the fastest growing economy on Earth.

If you're waiting for the prophesied "Coming Collapse of China", you're going to die waiting.
as to the U. S. S. R. issues: from what I recall, what came as a shock to Czechoslovak Comrades was the beginning of
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and the end of
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as for the rest of your post, I take the fifth amendment LOL
 
I didn't get from the article how many protesters were still inside
Hong Kong protests: police to send negotiators and psychologists to PolyU to convince holdouts to come out
  • Police promise protesters will not be arrested on the spot and will be treated similar to minors
  • Earlier in the day, university released three statements urging government to arrange for immediate departure of ‘dozens’ as campus is in ‘utter chaos’

follow the link
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if interested
 
46 minutes ago
***

back to HK, I guess eyes will be on
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now
and before that I hadn't read (nobody will believe me)
All eyes on Carrie Lam: decisive Hong Kong polls outcome demands ‘drastic response, not piecemeal fence-mending’
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anyway I'm guessing the most important sentence inside is “So we need to wait and see how Beijing will readjust its strategies regarding Hong Kong.”
 
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