Chinese semiconductor thread II

[tokenanalyst]

Reading the crap that Reuters wrote is giving me J-20 vibes in 2011, when every single "Aviation Expert" was saying that China would test their first stealth aircraft in 2030 and when China tested their J-20 almost 20 years earlier they switched to drink the "China Espionage" copium medicine in large quantities.

Even thought if you go to the research literature you could find China was making advances in stealth since the mid 90s.

 

[swcc]

@tokenanalyst what about euv pellicle and euv photomask? Almost all i've seen posted here and the ones i've searched are always euv photoresist. Oh and btw the article claims that china doesn't have the optical systems for euv,,, when zetop have it, it's just white supremacist cope.

 

[olalavn]

Exclusive: How China built its ‘Manhattan Project’ to rival the West in AI chips

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This project has been gradually revealed since October 2025...

 

[tokenanalyst]

@tokenanalyst what about euv pellicle and euv photomask? Almost all i've seen posted here and the ones i've searched are always euv photoresist. Oh and btw the article claims that china doesn't have the optical systems for euv,,, when zetop have it, it's just white supremacist cope.

I think you are not reading this forum well. EVERYTHING. From light sources to EUV Optical systems, EUV vacuum systems, Anti-Vibrations systems. Multi-Layer Masks, EUV Inspection, hydrogen cleaning... NONE of this EUV stuff is new in China. The have been developing it since before the mid 20s. Now they are in the commercial stage.

US export controls just accelerated a government project to make EUV patterned chips for SOEs, the military and the space program into a market necessity.

 

[tphuang]

I understand that people are excited, but let's still keep the post quality high and have good questions. If you want to ask about the full supply chain around EUV, @tokenanalyst and others have posted many on this topic.

And please do not use bold for your entire post unless you are a moderator.

 

[iewgnem]

If Reuters is reporting it then EUV is pretty much completed. Wow! This is the biggest news of this year I would say, much bigger than Deepseek. EUV was the one bottleneck holding China back on not just Chips, but also the entire technology stack such as AI, smartphones, supercomputers you name it. If China can get EUV, then they can finally break the Chip stranglehold and achieve complete self-sufficiency in technology.

If you read the article, they're still convinced China hasn't solved optics and claim the machine is just a light source plus second hand optical parts from Japan, and all their dates are wrong, lol

This is one of those things that will literally kill them through copium OD, as in they might literally kill ASML in a mad attempt at stopping their invented narrative where China somehow stole ASML's tech through 2nd hand parts.

 

[tokenanalyst]

China planned from a long time ago to make a network of purely domestics fabs to make chips for the government, the military and the space program independently.

In lithography, the goal was to have: I-Line machines for 250nm, KrF machines for 130nm and Dry ArF machines for 65nm, immersion machines for 45nm and EUV machines for 32nm. All Before 2030.

That information is not top secret, was there from before 2015, just because ASML was selling their lithography machine the development of domestic lithography machines including EUV didn't stop or deaccelerated. The goal was not to compete with ASML but to have a alternative, independent, secure supply of chips.

 

[tokenanalyst]

Two gallium oxide group standards were officially released.​

Two group standards, "β-phase gallium oxide homoepitaxial wafers" (T/CEMIA 050-2025) and "Galanium oxide single crystal dislocation density test method" (T/CEMIA 051-2025), led by Hangzhou Gallium Semiconductor Co., Ltd. , were officially released after being approved by the China Electronic Materials Industry Association and will be fully implemented from January 1, 2026. This is a major breakthrough in the standardization of fourth-generation semiconductor materials in China, marking a key step for the gallium oxide industry from technological research and development to large-scale application.

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[tokenanalyst]

Wow, there are multiply EUV programs in China. Just because it's hard doesn't mean China can't do it.

My guess is that similar to China dry and immersion lithography scanners modularity and standardization will be important trait of China EUV lithography programs. So developed components like different light sources could be shared. in that way when more powerful light sources come around like SSMB or FEL will be a minimal adaptation.

Below are some predictions about China's EUV that won't age well, as Glenn anticipated. From 2 months ago:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1979551450867847555

"lets ignore almost 20 years of China developments in EUV Technology"

 

[Eventine]

There's two take-aways from the article that are concerning, assuming they're true.

The first is that Western journalists / intelligence apparently have access to insiders of the project, indicating a certain degree of infiltration by spies. Not particularly surprising if key members of the team in Shenzhen are dual citizens / former ASML employees since they'd have been top targets for Western intelligence officers.

The second is the claim that China could not have done this without "former ASML employees [of Chinese descent.]" If this becomes the narrative in the West, then expect them to ban people of Chinese descent (not just citizens) from working on sensitive technologies in the future. It's probably too late to stop China's EUV efforts, but people of Chinese descent will definitely find more paths closed in the Western world.