Chinese semiconductor industry


latenlazy

Colonel
I disagree with that sentiment because the DUV/EUV lithographs already developed have many tens of thousands of parts within them which rely on the entire world to create. The amount of parts and differing scientific and industrial fields allow only a few countries in the world the potential to do it. Namely....
  • USA
  • China
  • Japan
  • Germany
If you had them going it alone, as in they were being technologically sanctioned like China, then only the USA and China would be able to do it. ASML is a microcosm of this. It is basically a systems integrator. Without the support of the most advanced industrial countries, ASML would be nowhere.
You don’t need to make *all* the parts, just the parts that are critical to function and performance. In this case it’s the light source and the mirrors. Everything else like stepper motors, mounts, cables, etc. can’t really be sanctioned or blocked without just an outright ban on trade. Furthermore, the non essential parts are often generic in a supply chain, and China is a major supplier for most of these kinds of generic components already. Talking about the number of parts misidentifies where the challenge of the technology is. The difficult part of developing this technology are really about optimizing the physics and integrating all subsystems to work coherently and effectively. It’s not in the fact that there are thousands of parts.
 

SleepyStudent

Junior Member
Registered Member
You don’t need to make *all* the parts, just the parts that are critical to function and performance. In this case it’s the light source and the mirrors. Everything else like stepper motors, mounts, cables, etc. can’t really be sanctioned or blocked without just an outright ban on trade. Furthermore, the non essential parts are often generic in a supply chain, and China is a major supplier for most of these kinds of generic components already. Talking about the number of parts misidentifies where the challenge of the technology is. The difficult part of developing this technology are really about optimizing the physics and integrating all subsystems to work coherently and effectively. It’s not in the fact that there are thousands of parts.
It would have to be a ban on all trade with all partners since motors, mounts and cables are available from multiple partners
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
Processes involved in Guowang , the principle China UV lithography projection Optics

北京国望光学科技有限公司投资 200000万元在北京经济技术开发区建设投影光刻机曝光光学系统研发及批量生产基地项目。

国望项目的实施对带动北京地区上下游产业共同形成超精密光学产业生态圈

项目主要生产设备为精密抛光机、微射流超光滑机床、磁流变抛光机床、离子束精修设备、数控磨床、五轴联动光学加工中心、高精度面形干涉检测干涉仪、离子束溅射镀膜等设备。

Beijing Guowang Optical Technology Co., Ltd. invested $300 millipn to build a project of R&D and mass production base of exposure optical system for projection lithography machine in Beijing Economic and Technological Development Zone.

Guowang production
The main production equipment of the project is precision polishing machine, micro-jet ultra-smooth machine tool, magnetorheological polishing machine tool, ion beam finishing equipment, CNC grinder, five-axis linkage optical processing center, high-precision surface interference detection interferometer, ion beam sputtering Coating and other equipment
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
国望收购了长春国科,国科在长春的生产基地现在有每年10套左右的产能,所以在23年国望建成之前所有的投影物镜都是长春生产的

重点是生产镜头的国产机床设备的重大突破,让国望的镜头可以和蔡司媲美

The breakthrough in country machining allows Guowang to compete against Zeiss.

This ability is rooted in China space and satellite optics programs.

Note, machining doesnt just mean CNC but the whole arrays. From initial coarse CNC machining to nm adjustment machining
 
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krautmeister

New Member
Registered Member
You don’t need to make *all* the parts, just the parts that are critical to function and performance. In this case it’s the light source and the mirrors. Everything else like stepper motors, mounts, cables, etc. can’t really be sanctioned or blocked without just an outright ban on trade. Furthermore, the non essential parts are often generic in a supply chain, and China is a major supplier for most of these kinds of generic components already. Talking about the number of parts misidentifies where the challenge of the technology is. The difficult part of developing this technology are really about optimizing the physics and integrating all subsystems to work coherently and effectively. It’s not in the fact that there are thousands of parts.
The point wasn't to insinuate every part is critical but that there were so many parts from different fields of science and engineering that go into integrating such complicated machinery. The Americans are still in the initial stages of grief and are currently muddying through the current stages...

  • Denial
  • Pain
  • Anger
  • ...
Banning China students from STEM studies is only the beginning of this tantrum. I wouldn't be surprised to see outright racial suppression starting even while in parallel with hypocritical American calls for anti-racism. In this sort of toxic environment, can China overcome it? This is a question I am sure "anti-China" think tanks pondered and came to the conclusion that China would fail and decoupling along with economic distress would follow. The end of the China Dream would follow and American 5 eyes supremacy would prevail, something usually mistakenly called "Western".

The problem with these think tanks is their inherent bias and ethnocentric racism. Yet, despite the restrictions, the suppression, the pseudo intellectual dismissal of blatant racism coming in the form of "I hate the CCP but I love the Chinese people", "Asians cannot really think", "China lies, steals and cheats" type talk, the fact of the matter is, even if China successfully creates a fully domestic semiconductor supply chain, the sanctions game and demonization will never stop until China successfully overpowers the Americans.
 

latenlazy

Colonel
The point wasn't to insinuate every part is critical but that there were so many parts from different fields of science and engineering that go into integrating such complicated machinery. The Americans are still in the initial stages of grief and are currently muddying through the current stages...

  • Denial
  • Pain
  • Anger
  • ...
Banning China students from STEM studies is only the beginning of this tantrum. I wouldn't be surprised to see outright racial suppression starting even while in parallel with hypocritical American calls for anti-racism. In this sort of toxic environment, can China overcome it? This is a question I am sure "anti-China" think tanks pondered and came to the conclusion that China would fail and decoupling along with economic distress would follow. The end of the China Dream would follow and American 5 eyes supremacy would prevail, something usually mistakenly called "Western".

The problem with these think tanks is their inherent bias and ethnocentric racism. Yet, despite the restrictions, the suppression, the pseudo intellectual dismissal of blatant racism coming in the form of "I hate the CCP but I love the Chinese people", "Asians cannot really think", "China lies, steals and cheats" type talk, the fact of the matter is, even if China successfully creates a fully domestic semiconductor supply chain, the sanctions game and demonization will never stop until China successfully overpowers the Americans.
Not every system in a lithograph is cutting edge for their specific domain, or needs to be. A lot of the advanced parts of a piece of equipment is in figuring out specifics of how a part should operate in a specific work flow or context rather than what the part is.
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
thanks excellent article the gist of the article is the same like what we discussed in this forum. In the way the sanction is god bless gift from heaven for Chinese semiconductor equipment maker Now they just have to deliver the promise. They now have one foot at the door. I have no doubt they will pass with flying color

However, the U.S. sanctions may have removed the main domestic obstacle to the goal of China's chip self-sufficiency effort, which is the lack of cooperation by China's own local buyers. They have always preferred buying from tried-and-tested foreign vendors rather than inexperienced local companies. But that, crucially, has now changed.

"Previously, domestic chip manufacturers only used leading production equipment that all the other top global chipmakers like Samsung and Intel also use in their production lines," another manager with a China-based chipmaker told Nikkei, preferring not to be named. "Who would bother to use and try these local-made machines that could possibly affect production quality?"

As the threat of sanctions hits close to home, however, these same producers are increasingly exploring domestic-made alternatives to the top-end U.S.-made technology, the manager said. "That also means these local players finally have a chance to practice and really upgrade their products in an atmosphere that the whole country is rooting for this," he said.

Sheng of Gartner told Nikkei that U.S.-China tensions have consolidated industry opinion around the necessity to localize production. "It's the whole country's consensus now that building a viable semiconductor industry and boosting self-reliance is the top priority. ... The top policymakers know, company executives know and even local people know," said Sheng.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
One trick pony US senators calling for global coordinated effort to block semiconductor equipments to China.

I wonder what else they gonna say in 2025? I don't think they have much left to say. By then they would be running low on fuel.
 

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