Chinese semiconductor industry


latenlazy

Colonel
@latenlazy Sir from reading the post of @krautmeister I see merits in his suggestion of having One Industrialized synchrotrons powering multiple Lithograph EUV machine, maybe by using this kind of method the cost may be lowered? Sir forgive me for being a nuisance but from what I learned the major factor in ASML EUVL being so expensive is because of Cymer LPP power sources. Take that away from the equation and maybe having 12 EUV with a single power source maybe more effective?
Trying to figure out how to design a lithograph system that can do that will bring about its own complexities, potential operational difficulties, and extra costs. Then you need to factor in whether your production lines really need that many lithographs, and whether it even makes sense to make all your lithographs dependent on synchronous operations, as that’s what linking multiple lithographs onto one light source effectively forces you to do. I’m not going to say this technology is impossible to make work but I wouldn’t be so cavalierly hopeful about it as something that could be available in a short time frame.
 

latenlazy

Colonel
EUV lithography is one of the hardest things Humans have ever achieved, if not the hardest. The light source is also the most difficult part to re-create in an EUV lithography machine.
Honestly...the “EUV is one of the hardest things” sentiment is kind of hype. It’s a challenging piece of technology to work with, but the effective mechanics and principles at this point are pretty well known, and the engineering methods needed to make an EUV light source are practically mature. Technology isn’t magical. Once you have the principles and mechanics figured out the rest is just practice and tweaking.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
Thanks. Why would it be if the 1.35NA SMEE ArFi could get down to 28nm, could it not multipattern down to 7nm as is the case with the TSMC N7/ASML NXT:1980i? Seems to be fairly intuitive to me though I haven't worked in this space for a while.

And then the wait for EUVL is >=2025, I guess but by then, China would have caught up with the global frontier, or at least only be one high-NA optics set short as high-NA EUVL is the end.
Two factors.
One is alignment and another is smee maybe less ambitious
 

SleepyStudent

Junior Member
Registered Member
Two factors.
One is alignment and another is smee maybe less ambitious
Ahh, doesn't U-Precision make the alignment stages and per their PR, it's pretty good. Seems like China will catch the frontier at the end of the decade though anything you can do on 5/7/14, you can similarly do on 28nm, even if a tad more power-inefficient but just as fast
 

SleepyStudent

Junior Member
Registered Member
Thanks. Why would it be if the 1.35NA SMEE ArFi could get down to 28nm, could it not multipattern down to 7nm as is the case with the TSMC N7/ASML NXT:1980i? Seems to be fairly intuitive to me though I haven't worked in this space for a while.

And then the wait for EUVL is >=2025, I guess but by then, China would have caught up with the global frontier, or at least only be one high-NA optics set short as high-NA EUVL is the end.
@WTAN do you have any details to fill in?
 

krautmeister

New Member
Registered Member
Honestly...the “EUV is one of the hardest things” sentiment is kind of hype. It’s a challenging piece of technology to work with, but the effective mechanics and principles at this point are pretty well known, and the engineering methods needed to make an EUV light source are practically mature. Technology isn’t magical. Once you have the principles and mechanics figured out the rest is just practice and tweaking.
I disagree with that sentiment because the DUV/EUV lithographs already developed have many tens of thousands of parts within them which rely on the entire world to create. The amount of parts and differing scientific and industrial fields allow only a few countries in the world the potential to do it. Namely....
  • USA
  • China
  • Japan
  • Germany
If you had them going it alone, as in they were being technologically sanctioned like China, then only the USA and China would be able to do it. ASML is a microcosm of this. It is basically a systems integrator. Without the support of the most advanced industrial countries, ASML would be nowhere.
 

SleepyStudent

Junior Member
Registered Member
I disagree with that sentiment because the DUV/EUV lithographs already developed have many tens of thousands of parts within them which rely on the entire world to create. The amount of parts and differing scientific and industrial fields allow only a few countries in the world the potential to do it. Namely....
  • USA
  • China
  • Japan
  • Germany
If you had them going it alone, as in they were being technologically sanctioned like China, then only the USA and China would be able to do it. ASML is a microcosm of this. It is basically a systems integrator. Without the support of the most advanced industrial countries, ASML would be nowhere.
Doesn't Nikon only use Japanese sourced products? So US/CN/EU/JP?
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ahh, doesn't U-Precision make the alignment stages and per their PR, it's pretty good. Seems like China will catch the frontier at the end of the decade though anything you can do on 5/7/14, you can similarly do on 28nm, even if a tad more power-inefficient but just as fast
Make smee job easier system integration if it focus only at 28nm first.

Alignment is overall system alignment, lens, light , wafer, not just the stage.
 
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Sincho

New Member
Registered Member
You guys have heard of "desktop" or "tabletop" synchrotrons? Google it up if haven't. I wonder if can be used as EUV light source.
 

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