China and India relationship

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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
By "article", do you mean Wikipedia?

Did you notice that the only sentence in which Pakistan's "concern" is mentioned, there is no citation? In fact, the only citation in that entire paragraph is a statement by Nehru in the Indian parliament.

The most relevant sections though, are cited (below) and also, keep the context of these developments in the 50s and 60s in mind, they took place after the events in '47 which were discussed before in this thread:

"By 1959, however, Chinese maps were published showing large areas west and south of the MacDonald line in China. That year, the Government of Pakistan announced its willingness to consult on the boundary question."
The Geographer. Office of the Geographer. Bureau of Intelligence and Research. Department of State, United States of America (November 15, 1968), China – Pakistan Boundary (PDF), International Boundary Study, 85, Florida State University College of Law

"After Pakistan voted to grant China a seat in the United Nations, the Chinese withdrew the disputed maps in January 1962, agreeing to enter border talks in March. Negotiations between the nations officially began on October 13, 1962 and resulted in the Sino-Pakistan Agreement signed on 2 March 1963 by foreign ministers Chen Yi of China and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan."
"Signing with the Red Chinese". Time (magazine). 15 March 1963. Archived from the original on 6 August 2020. Retrieved 28 October 2019.




Are you seriously going there? Dude your governments get rewarded for military failures, as we've been seeing since 2019. Modi actually got re-elected after the whole Balakot fiasco. Any other self-respecting population would've booted that guy out of office for the failed bombing alone, let alone getting a Mig splashed and fragging their own chopper. Then next year, after China walked in and kicked his ass, and again no real dip in popularity. Then Modi completely messed up the Covid response and again, he's still in office.
Ooh that's going to leave a mark.
 

tallgamer

New Member
Registered Member
By "article", do you mean Wikipedia?

Did you notice that the only sentence in which Pakistan's "concern" is mentioned, there is no citation? In fact, the only citation in that entire paragraph is a statement by Nehru in the Indian parliament.

The most relevant sections though, are cited (below) and also, keep the context of these developments in the 50s and 60s in mind, they took place after the events in '47 which were discussed before in this thread:

"By 1959, however, Chinese maps were published showing large areas west and south of the MacDonald line in China. That year, the Government of Pakistan announced its willingness to consult on the boundary question."
The Geographer. Office of the Geographer. Bureau of Intelligence and Research. Department of State, United States of America (November 15, 1968), China – Pakistan Boundary (PDF), International Boundary Study, 85, Florida State University College of Law

"After Pakistan voted to grant China a seat in the United Nations, the Chinese withdrew the disputed maps in January 1962, agreeing to enter border talks in March. Negotiations between the nations officially began on October 13, 1962 and resulted in the Sino-Pakistan Agreement signed on 2 March 1963 by foreign ministers Chen Yi of China and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan."
"Signing with the Red Chinese". Time (magazine). 15 March 1963. Archived from the original on 6 August 2020. Retrieved 28 October 2019.




Are you seriously going there? Dude your governments get rewarded for military failures, as we've been seeing since 2019. Modi actually got re-elected after the whole Balakot fiasco. Any other self-respecting population would've booted that guy out of office for the failed bombing alone, let alone getting a Mig splashed and fragging their own chopper. Then next year, after China walked in and kicked his ass, and again no real dip in popularity. Then Modi completely messed up the Covid response and again, he's still in office.
Interesting that the negotiations started in 13th Oct 62 while the indo Chinese war started on 20th oct.
So Pakistan wasn't worried by the Chinese claims in the 50s and accepted them immediately (63 actually) ? What were the negotiations for then ? And why does the Pakistani UN recognition lead to the Chinese withdrawing the maps ?
Nothing you have written actually contradicts what i had cited.

And Pakistan did sign away a large part of its previously claimed territory to the Chinese.
About balakot was it really a failure ?
India has lost 100s of civilians and soldiers in terrorist attacks from the 90s.
Passenger train bomb blasts in the 90s in Mumbai killing 100s ,bombay stock exchange blast -the perpetrator dawood ebrahim openly hiding in pakistan. His kid getting married to the kid of miandad , a cricket legend in Pakistan.
1999 kargil attack, right after vaypayees historic visit.
Parliament attack in 2002.
2008 Mumbai attack.

And these were during the reign of our liberal Congress PM Manmohan singh.
How did India respond ? With words.
Except in kargil, where bjp vajpayee was in charge and the PA was thrown back. But even here no Indian plane crossed the LOC to attack the Pakistani positions.

The balakot air strikes were the 1st time post 1971 war that Indian planes actually bombed a non disputed part of Pakistan , not Kashmir.
Pakistan responded by releasing air to ground missiles from well within their own territory into Indian Kashmir.
For whatever reason Pakistan did not allow journalists to examine the attacked camp for 41 days. While claiming that it was a madrassa for kids. Which was under guard by the Pakistani army ?
This attack laid the groundwork for the historic abolishment of the article 370. Pakistan could do nothing except wail.

As for the Chinese. Its been discussed ad nauseam so i will just say that the first Chinese casualties at the hands of a foreign army in 40 decades. Result of a deliberate act by a enemy.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
Interesting that the negotiations started in 13th Oct 62 while the indo Chinese war started on 20th oct.
So Pakistan wasn't worried by the Chinese claims in the 50s and accepted them immediately (63 actually) ? What were the negotiations for then ? And why does the Pakistani UN recognition lead to the Chinese withdrawing the maps ?

So this is you wiggling around the fact that the Wikipedia 'article' you referenced doesn't actually cite your original claim. And your response is to speculate and infuse your own ideas into the event, but you don't qualify as a scholarly secondary source.


Nothing you have written actually contradicts what i had cited.
You didn't 'cite' anything.

You referenced a Wiki article, which doesn't actually provide a citation for your claim.

The fact that you're not getting this is fun to watch. Please continue.

And Pakistan did sign away a large part of its previously claimed territory to the Chinese.
China also signed territory over to Pakistan. Were they also "worried"?

As has been made clear multiple times, there has been an exchange of land between Pakistan and China since 1947.

About balakot was it really a failure ?

According to basically everyone, even pro-Indian stooges like Christine Fair, yea, it was a huge failure.

The only people who think Balakot was a success are Indians, which is why they re-elected Modi (thanks for proving my argument by the way. I rest my case.)
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I was going to mention that the wiki page (lol btw) doesn't even mention what tallgamer claimed ... but honestly just can't be that bothered :p

Jai Hinds always desperate to malign others they don't like. Twisting words and history, ignoring nuance and full set of facts.
 

Nobaron

Junior Member
Registered Member
As for the Chinese. Its been discussed ad nauseam so i will just say that the first Chinese casualties at the hands of a foreign army in 40 decades. Result of a deliberate act by a enemy.
That is one thing I agree with. I mean seriously China? To the Indian?
Though I am not sure China would designate them as enemy. Sure West is China's enemy. India would be more like, pest problem I would say.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
That is one thing I agree with. I mean seriously China? To the Indian?
Though I am not sure China would designate them as enemy. Sure West is China's enemy. India would be more like, pest problem I would say.

Let's leave bharat supa dupa to his own delusions. He tells his mates what happened and they start quoting him as their insider OSINT anonymous source supa dupa reliable from CIA... Mr. Smith Johnson reporting.

The only factual thing is that Chinese soldiers (4 of them) died at the hands of these savages.


This is the kind of stuff they celebrate as strength lol... stuff they touch themselves to.

But when it came to actually fighting, the IA pansies ran off (too used to raping women and murdering elderly folks in front of their grandchildren in Kashmir - look it up happens all the time) and had to invent stories of inkkkredible mighti Bharat supa soldiers single handedly killing 12 PLA soldiers with nothing but bare hands. And they believe that.

In reality the only time they have upper hand is when lone PLA soldiers come out of their vehicles to talk and they unexpectedly beat on them in massive groups. Supa Powa 2012 in akshun.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Every single photo and video of interactions during this Ladakh event was either showing Indians settling at the base of a mountain with PLA occupying heights, or Indians being tied up by PLA soldiers, or Indians being escorted into trucks by PLA soldiers (returning their sorry asses), or pushing between massive groups and Indians being pushed out, or hordes of Indians in riot gear and helmets running up to a small handful of PLA soldiers with nothing but river wading equipment and soft hats lol, or that video linked where it shows Indians cowardly attacking a lone PLA communications officer who unfortunately was tasked with talking to the horde of Indians.

We have not seen any other than the above for interactions.

So spare us the cheap shots at Pakistan and saying stupid shit like "China wishes every other country was as brave as Pakistan" when India is the King of cowards, the Prince of incompetence, and the Queen of backhanded remarks.

Pakistan got land from China. Both countries settled their disputes to mutual agreement and both got something from the other and each compromised. India insists on claiming something the British incorrectly "demarcated"... a piece of land India has never administered in any way. India a nation that didn't even exist while it was governed under Tibet. Just because the Communists in China was weak during the 1950s doesn't mean that land is Indian.

For claiming Chinese land, it's only fair the Chinese also claim Indian land. India can behave and "swap" the claims where India cedes Aksai Chin in return for China ceding Arunachal Pradesh.
 
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badoc

Junior Member
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34000 sqkm ceded by Pakistan to China in exchange.
Pretty good deal for the Chinese. I bet they wish all their neighbors were this brave.

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Shaksgam Valley was never controlled by Pakistan and therefore not for them to cede.
"Win win" was achieved through the generosity of the Chinese.

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"
Although the area was not under Pakistan's control since 1947, it was claimed by
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as part of
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until the 1963
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."

I must say Pakistan was practical to surrender claims to land that was taken by the stroke of their Imperial Colonialist's pen and in return got a land gift(Hunza) from the Chinese.
.
 
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