The War in the Ukraine
- Thread starter SampanViking
- Start date
AFAIK the Russians did not use cluster munitions in Ukraine. The only cluster munitions I have seen used thus far were by Ukraine. They used Tochka missiles with cluster munitions against the port at Berdyansk after the Russians captured it, in the Kramatorsk train station against their own civilians who were trying to escape the fighting, and against downtown Donetsk. In Kramatorsk, they claimed it was a Russian strike, but there was photographic evidence from the missile wreckage disposition that it came from the Ukrainian side. Plus Russia replaced the Tochka with the Iskander years ago. In Donetsk they claimed the Russians shot themselves. Ukraine have also claimed certain strikes were Iskander strikes, when examination of the wreckage shows they were actually Tochka. And only they use them.
The large damage rounds that Russia has used that I have seen thus far, would have to be thermobarics, or using de-mining rounds against manned trenches and the like. And of course both sides still use regular fragmentation rounds and shrapnel.
The large damage rounds that Russia has used that I have seen thus far, would have to be thermobarics, or using de-mining rounds against manned trenches and the like. And of course both sides still use regular fragmentation rounds and shrapnel.
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Here's a sudden revelation. I always wondered where the S-350 Vitayaz has been in this conflict, and the mystery has been answered. They were deployed secretly and has made a number of air kills then. But the most telling revelation is that the Russians are using an 'automatic' mode, meaning no human intervention in the engagement process, relying entirely on AI. (The prospect of friendly fire shootdowns are also suddenly plausible for some cases.). The range of these missiles are up to 120km, and with active guidance systems, puts the missiles roughly equivalent to the Aster 30.
Abandoned damaged BTR-4. High casualties but which is to be expected being constantly in the thick of battle. IMO, this Ukrainian made vehicle is the best IFV with the Ukrainians currently.
A direct artillery hit isn't necessary to destroy a pickup. This is a reason why 'technicals' are a bad idea in a modern conventional war. Here a Ukrainian pickup dropped it's troops, but it was then shelled upon. The shell's AOE was enough to turn the pickup into a raging fire.
Abandoned damaged BTR-4. High casualties but which is to be expected being constantly in the thick of battle. IMO, this Ukrainian made vehicle is the best IFV with the Ukrainians currently.
A direct artillery hit isn't necessary to destroy a pickup. This is a reason why 'technicals' are a bad idea in a modern conventional war. Here a Ukrainian pickup dropped it's troops, but it was then shelled upon. The shell's AOE was enough to turn the pickup into a raging fire.
There hasn't been much evidence of use of cluster munition by Russia. Ukraine on the other hand, has made more extensive use of it from HIMARS and the ones that drop petal anti-personel mines.
Perhaps Russia does not believe that the advanced advantages of certain weapons can guarantee a quick victory in war? I think that apart from the propaganda machine of the west system, no one believes this. Russia’s current goal is not to win the war quickly. Once the window of opportunity has passed, it has passed. History will not give a second chance. Russia’s current goal is to hold on to those four states and kill as many Ukrainian troops as possible.
The problem is that the cluster munitions will increase casualties. If used improperly, not just to the other side but even your own. Imagine someone deciding to do an artillery barrage to soften up a target before an assault, and some idiot uses cluster munitions on the target, then when your own troops go in, there are unexploded bomblets all over the place. Then there is the fact that Russia is trying to minimize civilian casualties. And having unexploded ordnance all over the place would do precisely that.
Of course the US just wants to maximize Russian casualties, and they could care less about Ukrainian casualties. Only problem is possible PR backlash when the photographs of maimed civilians start showing up on the press. That is one reason why I think they have not done it yet.
But remember people, Ukraine is fighting alone against the evil Russian bear...
Rybar:
- US RQ-4B Global Hawk south of Crimea
- US high-altitude U-2S over Romania and Bulgaria
- RQ-4D Phoenix over the SW part of the Black Sea
- French anti-submarine aircraft Atlantique 2 off the coast of Romania
- UK electronic intelligence RC-135W now flying towards the Black Sea
The accumulation of so many reconnaissance aircraft is not a coincidence. As a rule, such NATO activity is followed by either an attempt at sabotage or strikes against the Crimean peninsula and southern Russian regions.
Rybar:
- US RQ-4B Global Hawk south of Crimea
- US high-altitude U-2S over Romania and Bulgaria
- RQ-4D Phoenix over the SW part of the Black Sea
- French anti-submarine aircraft Atlantique 2 off the coast of Romania
- UK electronic intelligence RC-135W now flying towards the Black Sea
The accumulation of so many reconnaissance aircraft is not a coincidence. As a rule, such NATO activity is followed by either an attempt at sabotage or strikes against the Crimean peninsula and southern Russian regions.
Do incendiaries count as cluster ammo in this context? Russia has used them quite extensively thus far. They do cover a large area but leave no lasting danger once the munition burns out, you just lose the soft shelter penetrating capability that cluster bombs would have but having incendiaries land on you will still take you out of the fight.
If NATO really wants to do something big here, then I guess Marshal Kim in Pyongyang may also have a new toy to try.But remember people, Ukraine is fighting alone against the evil Russian bear...
Rybar:
- US RQ-4B Global Hawk south of Crimea
- US high-altitude U-2S over Romania and Bulgaria
- RQ-4D Phoenix over the SW part of the Black Sea
- French anti-submarine aircraft Atlantique 2 off the coast of Romania
- UK electronic intelligence RC-135W now flying towards the Black Sea
The accumulation of so many reconnaissance aircraft is not a coincidence. As a rule, such NATO activity is followed by either an attempt at sabotage or strikes against the Crimean peninsula and southern Russian regions.