Ladakh Flash Point

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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Are you looking for pats from them ? I am not. I am a Indian on a Chinese forum and will present my viewpoints without being personal or derogatory.
I was just replying to the Chinese guys claiming that tibetans were happily returning to Tibet and preferred the communist regime. Now they are claiming the head of the regime has to be protected from protests from tibetans , so the secrecy.
What i wanted from this forum was the Chinese view why they diverted a sizable force into no mans land and precipitated the crisis. But they are totally ignoring the question.
Even a arrogant but frank admission that xi wants to stamp his mark on Chinese history would be welcome. So the incursions. Why not be frank on a anonymous site ? Not as if the thought police will arrest you.
Its funny when someone says we dont think about India much, on a forum where the ladakh thread seems to be the longest. And populated by Chinese comments. Haha.
OK, I see you have poor reading comprehension so you need things summarized for you.

The Chinese are angry because north of 200 armed Indians carried out a cowardly ambush killing 5 unarmed Chinese negotiators. Then these cravens fled to their deaths in freezing waters so Chinese soldiers didn't even really get to kill anyone back; it's just suicide. And there's video evidence to show that India lied, saying that the Chinese created the ambush with a large force. This is dishonorable lowly behavior. If you wanna fight, say want a fight; we'll be there and happy to entertain. But this spineless ambush garbage is beneath the standards of every modern professional military force, which, in retrospect, is why that's par for the course for India.

So you see, China did not start anything; India started this conflict hoping to get a land grab while China was preoccupied with COVID. China doesn't start issues with India because we don't have time to waste on lesser countries; we are focused on overtaking the US, the only country fit to be China's rival.
Please don't confuse the Chinese here with facts. They like to crash and kill their fighter plane pilots by colliding with slow moving american electronic signatures gathering planes . Because the pla has only perfect communist citizens and can do no wrong. Though i didn't know calling Chinese communist was not liked by them.
Please don't confuse yourself with events that have nothing to do with each other. First of all, Xsizor simply explained how India screwed up; it's not a valid excuse nor was it meant to be. Secondly, in the Hainan incident, the Chinese jet sacrificed itself to bring down an enemy aircraft allowing the PLA to dissect and study it while Indians killed thier own heli with Indians in it during an actual armed conflict. Basically, Pakistan shot down your jet, and in response, you shot down your own chopper. Way to take off the tension through laughter I guess. Those two incidents have no similarity.
Good joke
Did someone say "Indian facts"?
 
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Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
I think that this is probably a temporary depot for parking trucks. If all those trucks are on the move then I admit that Indian truckers have mad driving skills.

It is general truism that the truck companies in any army do not get its best and most disciplined men. The fact that all the trucks are in neat rows and no truck is trying to merge from one lane to the next suggest this is a truck park and not trucks on the move.
 

yungho

Junior Member
Registered Member
Complete nonsense. Even on a anonymous forum you guys are conditioned to lie through your teeth.
The rearrangement of jk state into union territory effects china in no way. The autonomous powers given to jk were done internally by India long before china was ever involved. It was a arrangement between the Indian state and jk after Pakistan tried to militarily occupy jk in 1947.
To present this as justification for the incursions is just dishonesty.
China shoved a large number of troops into no mans land and India was as usual reacting.
And atleast you admitted you have no idea why the Chinese boss has to quietly skunk into a happy and prosperous province... But everyone else is quite aware.
The GDP numbers are reflective of the uncontrolled migration of han Chinese into tibet.

And i have read a lot of the thread. Very few non Chinese here.
The fact is this thread depends on input from the independent Indian media.
Because you aren't getting any explanations from the communist government. Whether on ladakh or xi's visit.
What makes you think Han Chinese wants to go to Tibet? That's the biggest misconception I see in the west. Why would people emigrate west to less prosperous areas when they can emigrate east to where the most developed parts of the country are? Han Chinese in Tibet/Xinjiang have somewhat of a poor reputation because everyone knows the only reason they move there is because they were exiled/outcasts and poor.

It's the same reason why so many Indians emigrate to the US. Do you see their children emigrating back to India? Ever wonder why?
 

yungho

Junior Member
Registered Member
Like I said before Chinese leaders are too narrow minded and naive and often too magnanimous for their own good. It has resulted in lapse of judgement and downfall in the past.

China needs better and more shrewd leaders. The current crop are just too cunning at playing party politics but useless for the world stage. Personal opinion I know many think otherwise. I don't doubt their performance and planning or organisation of the rest of hte country but when it comes to dealing with foreigners, they need people who know foreigners and lived through it all.
Agreed though ironically iirc a good portion of cpc people in power received higher education in the west. They mistakenly get too caught up in the rhetoric game, they should be focused on subverting the US alliance network in Asia.
 

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
it is a difficult art to master the actual mechanics of power in a dramatically difficult, but complex culture. Neither Americans nor chinese governments tend to be good at it, especially with respect to mastering the mechanics of power in power each other.

In the case of the US, the reason is not that there is an shortage of people good at it, but that it is politically inconvenient for people in power to listen to them. People in power talk to them, but only hear what they want to hear, not what those with the knowledge thinks is most important for them to hear. I wonder what is the reason for the equal failing on China’s part.
 

jfy1155

Junior Member
Registered Member
Wow, Lying is so easy for you lot. You asked for a ban and back tracked once the mod rejected your wailing. Thats why i say that the Chinese should be dealt with based on their actions not words.
The undisputed facts are -
1. During the surge in covid , china decided to divert a large training force into disputed areas. Simultaneously it also picked fights with vietnam by sinking their boat and started aggressive air flights over Taiwan , etc.
My theory is that it was done to divert focus from the virus.
In india's case the planning was probably in place due to the doklam humiliation. The virus presented a good opportunity.
No one here likes to address why the Chinese chose this pandemic time to move when other transgressions were very minor before ?

2. Various reasons like India building infrastructure close to the border were given but the fact is the Chinese moved because they could due to superior fire power. The bottomline is "power flows through the barrel of the gun " for the Chinese. So against india they moved but against the west they are afraid, so the US fleets regular sailing into chinese claimed waters is met with spokespersons deploring and protesting.
They have super power delusions and unfortunately zero internal checks. We have seen how usa behaves as a superpower with some semblance of internal checks, now imagine a self righteous china claiming its 'rightful' position ? Not my words , just go back a few pages and read the chinese posters boasting of the rise of China.

3. The Chinese aggressions are not surprising for a independent observer but only for delusional Indian policy makers. The Chinese incursions have been happening on a regular basis since the 90s , when the bjp was not around. Indians are relying on the good intentions of the Chinese to not man the Chinese border, which is understandable as its a long and difficult border to man. But its poor defence. The Congress government had decided to make a new mountain force based on the Chinese actions but was mostly shelved because of cost .
But convenience does not trump reality. Modi the new 'hope' tried to build relations by having 19 meetings with xi in 5 years , but Chinese policy and actions are not based on 5 yearly election results. The Chinese are just continuing what they have been doing on a smaller scale.
If the blatant military and nuclear support to a country like Pakistan is not enough to open the government's eyes , i have no idea what is ? Solely look at the actions , not quotes from Confucius.

4. The Chinese have totally miscalculated this time. Problem is that no one knows what the Chinese government has in mind. The people here are just blind supporters and my first question , what was the reason behind the major incursion was not answered. Because its inconvenient and they dont know. They know the Chinese are the aggressors and try to spin it , unconvincingly.

Xi has managed to push a reluctant India into the American camp. The antipathy to USA in Indian government circles is well known because of American support to Pakistan. They are considered unprincipled and good solely for transactional relationships.
But from a practical viewpoint thanks to China, India has been pushed into securing its eastern borders at a minimum cost . The mountain brigade is being revived. The Tibetan's are being featured prominently. The Dalai Lama has been wished publicly by Modi for the first time in 6 years. We are acquiring arms at a faster rate, bypassing the bureaucracy. Infrastructure building in the border with China is now on a war footing.
The gloves are off. Its like the kargil and Mumbai massacre moment with Pakistan. All the peaceniks are sidelined and practical actions are in place.
Let the insults flow.....
What is your DFI account?
 

tallgamer

New Member
Registered Member
It's the same reason why so many Indians emigrate to the US. Do you see their children emigrating back to India? Ever wonder why?
Google is your friend. If you have access to google. Thousands of Indians come back to India. Not saying usa is not the promised land for ambitious Indian's but the trend of Indians returning to India is well established and nothing new.
You read about the ill treatment of minorities in India but do you see Indian boat refugees like sri Lanka or like Pakistanis in europe or like the Hindus and sikhs coming to India from Afghanistan and Pakistan ? No you don't. Dont just go by official Chinese media and western media.
You have a brain. Learn to analyze. If India is so bad , why were Indian muslims and liberals protesting for months for repeal of a citizenship law that gave citizenship rights to some non muslim refugees from neighboring countries in 5 years instead of the normal 12. They were asking for muslim refugees to be included. Imagine muslims from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh migrating to evil anti minority India ?
 
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Looks like Modi and Jaishankar are trying to extricate themselves from the anglo led disaster of trying to embark on a suicidal mission against China, but that the anglos are going hell for leather to prevent any sort of climbdown on the part of the indian gov.
More likely that Indians are naïve enough to think a US ally can pursue an independent foreign policy. If you're pro American, you need to be anti Russia, anti China, anti Iran and so on. Just cooperating on China isn't enough.

That said I don't think this will lead to much, India doesn't have much it can offer to Iran.
 
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