WW II Historical Thread, Discussion, Pics, Videos


jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well if looking at the actual history, its not black and white good vs bad like with Nazi Germany in Europe. It's a big blur of grey. It is actually more on the US and China side to recognize yhe gray of it instead continuing to indulge in being on the right side of what they've been conditioned into believeing it having been a black and white/good vs bad like in Europe.

Japan is like the stubborn good person that gets a bad name.
Don't be that guy!
Be the cunning bad person who preaches moral Good and grab the moral high ground, all for his own gain and benefit.
And all of this have to start by removing those convicted war criminals from the shrine.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well if you want a full response rather than a muddle response..

Did you read it?

So what? that post you quoted was by no mean revisionist. That's the history everyone learns, that's the history I learned, what are you trying to say, what is your point? That Japanese Imperialism is not to blame? Of course Japanese Imperialism is to blame! The defeat of Japan is nothing random, they are determined by Japanese actions, which are in turn determined by Japanese militarism and imperialistic mindset. Japanese Empire's failure can only be blame on their Imperialism.

Just think about it, if even the mighty European who divided Africa and colonize the whole of India, did not feel comfortable formally taking over China, what gave Japanese the audacity to try it?
 

hijiki

Junior Member
Registered Member
So what? that post you quoted was by no mean revisionist. That's the history everyone learns, that's the history I learned, what are you trying to say, what is your point? That Japanese Imperialism is not to blame? Of course Japanese Imperialism is to blame! The defeat of Japan is nothing random, they are determined by Japanese actions, which are in turn determined by Japanese militarism and imperialistic mindset. Japanese Empire's failure can only be blame on their Imperialism.

Just think about it, if even the mighty European who divided Africa and colonize the whole of India, did not feel comfortable formally taking over China, what gave Japanese the audacity to try it?

Perfect. The points I was trying to make was included within.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
Perfect. The points I was trying to make was included within.

I still don't get your point. You putting random fact together with very vague qualitative terms, which infers nothing of substance, because those facts are not comparable. Only amateur gets persuaded by what you are trying to imply. I basically fail to see what you are trying to imply, because I don't see how apples can be compared to oranges.

You're saying that "Great leap forward" and "Cultural Revolution" are terrible. Yes, they are, but they are by no means worse than the living hell of 1840 to 1949, in fact even the worst is much better than that 109 year of turmoil. So if you are trying to compare apple to apple, then compare China mainland from 1840 to 1949 to China from 1949 to 1979. I won't even include the post 1979, in your favor. Use any real parameter commonly used for measuring quality of life (life expectancy, infant mortality rate, population growth against fertility rate), you will find that the PRC is by far BETTER than ROC and the Qing dynasty, as well as anything the Japanese could come up with in China proper.

Yes it's true that Taiwan and Korea are good under Japanese Rule. But how does that justify the invasion of all of China? Taiwan and Korea are tiny compare to China, and they were a province and a vessels state formally and legally begotten by Japan from Qing dynasty. They retained the old pre-May-Fourth old traditional Confucian culture, making them automatically subservient to a sovereign. All their experience is getting transferred as subjects from one incompetent backward sovereign (Qing Emperor) to a more modern and progressive Sovereign (Japanese Emperor). This means that Japanese had the least amount of frictions and difficulties governing these two tiny places, not even at the same time. And even then, the little Taiwan that only has a fraction of its population of it today, were deemed as a huge difficulty to govern by the Japanese at first. How do earth do you Japanese all of a sudden gained the confidence and audacity to invade a chaotic China, that has already abandoned "Mandate of Heaven" structure? That would be immensely difficult. Only arrogant fools like the Japanese would do it.

Japanese are fools because all they do is “Monkey see, Monkey want, Monkey grab", they don't think about consequences, they don't think about potential threats, they don't think about societal trend, they don't think about culture, they don't think about how their rivals will act, they only think about what can see and what they desire. They see Manchuria and say: "me want this!", and they dig in. And that is the start of their doom.
 

Dolcevita

Captain
Well if you want a full response rather than a muddle response..

Did you read it?

Still not seeing the answer to question posted.
Not seeing any effort to encourage introspection and reflection on Japanese Showa history in classes.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
Perfect. The points I was trying to make was included within.

You're basically saying that just because every other power back than was imperialistic and ruthless, Japan should get away with it. Same lazy argument as saying Manchuria is huge and full of resources and sparsely populated, that's why Japan should dig in and take it. What is you point and purpose? You are trying to tell us to stop blaming and judging Japan? You're acting like a child, trying to shift blame and escaping from fingers pointed at them.

Everyone else has imperialistic ambitions, true, but not everyone succeeded. Some did, most didn't. Have you Japanese ever thought about why you failed? Is it only because of your bad luck? I refuse to believe so.

You Japanese like to dream big about this huge empire. but have you ever though about real empire building? Have you though about the geopolitics of it? look at the map of your empire. You empire look like a joke. You didn't care about Sha'angannin (陕甘宁), you didn‘t care about Sichuan, you didn't care about Tibet and Xinjiang. Yet all those places are like pieces of an intricate machin that work together to form a whole.

According to your "Holy Mission of freeing the Asians from the captivity of the white European", you should know that you will eventually come into a confrontation with white Caucasian countries. If you build an empire on the basis of a race, you will antagonize others on the same basis of race. Your biggest land rival is the USSR(a white Caucasian country), your biggest maritime rival is the USA and British Empire (both are white Caucasian countries). Forming you Empires upon the basis of the "yellow race" freeing themselves from the "white oppressors" will bound to antagonize all three, and thus uniting them together. This means that you will eventually face a two (three) front confrontation. How on earth, could you sustain such a confrontation without the strategic depth of Tibet and Xinjiang? Without Sichuan and Sha'angannin (陕甘宁), how on earth do you secure Tibet and Xinjiang?

This all seems disconcerting, too foolish to be true. Yet the biggest problem with you Japanese is that you are actually are telling the truth. You actually had no real plan at all. You have no foresight, you just go without a plan, poking around, trying your luck, get what ever you can get. You are like scavengers.
 
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hijiki

Junior Member
Registered Member
Still not seeing the answer to question posted.
Not seeing any effort to encourage introspection and reflection on Japanese Showa history in classes.

To so say sounds like it overlooks the history that happend.

Maybe because it would produce a sort of questioning not desiable? What if Japan had won? What if the US did not but an oil embargo on Japan or what if the US decided to allow FDR to meet Konoye so as to negotiate about the oil embargo? What if Chiang Kai-shek had not been back stapped in the Xi'an incident meaning no "second united front" thus likely no Second Sino-Japanese War? These are the possible questions if encouraged to introspect.

Is the "introspection" you seek only satisfied if its an "apologize like the Germans" conclusion?
 

Dolcevita

Captain
To so say sounds like it overlooks the history that happend.

Maybe because it would produce a sort of questioning not desiable? What if Japan had won? What if the US did not but an oil embargo on Japan or what if the US decided to allow FDR to meet Konoye so as to negotiate about the oil embargo? What if Chiang Kai-shek had not been back stapped in the Xi'an incident meaning no "second united front" thus likely no Second Sino-Japanese War? These are the possible questions if encouraged to introspect.

Is the "introspection" you seek only satisfied if its an "apologize like the Germans" conclusion?

An attempt to genuinely reflect would be a start. What I see from you are just excuses and whataboutism.
 

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