WW II Historical Thread, Discussion, Pics, Videos


Dolcevita

Captain
Since we are replying via youtube now, here is a narrative that is more academic and more pertinent than your petty deflection.
Who knows? you may learn something new. Remember you were saying that Imperial Japan soldiers brutality is proportional to the norm at this time.

 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
To so say sounds like it overlooks the history that happend.

Maybe because it would produce a sort of questioning not desiable? What if Japan had won? What if the US did not but an oil embargo on Japan or what if the US decided to allow FDR to meet Konoye so as to negotiate about the oil embargo? What if Chiang Kai-shek had not been back stapped in the Xi'an incident meaning no "second united front" thus likely no Second Sino-Japanese War? These are the possible questions if encouraged to introspect.

Is the "introspection" you seek only satisfied if its an "apologize like the Germans" conclusion?

That's an even more idiotic point! If Chiang Kai-shek did not go to war with Japan, the Japanese would be stupid not to go to war with the ROC! What make you think that after the annexation of Manchuria, it would be in Japan's favor to have peace/cease-fire with the ROC? Chiang Kai-shek never recognized Manchukuo, and never accepted separation of Manchuria from the ROC.

Just think about it! If the Japanese were stupid enough to not got to war with the ROC at the time and stopped at the outside of the Great Wall, then Manchukuo would be effectively stuck in between the ROC and the USSR. This was at a time when the USSR is afraid that Outer Mongolia will fall outside of their control and thus exposing the Siberian Railway to potential threat. This chain of suspicion will unite the USSR and the ROC. They will both be able to get more help and gain more concession from each other.

Do you Japanese really want to be stuck in Between the USSR and the ROC in the tiny little Manchuria? Peace at the time, would be in ROC and USSR's benefit and favor. Because they both had a much larger population and larger land mass than Japan at the time. If the Japanese is stupid enough to accept (and even offer) peace, what they will see would be Chiang Kai-shek quickly taking the chance to wipe out the communists and effectively uniting the rest of China, putting an end the warlord era, and starting nation building. And at the same time, he will start maneuvering and reorganizing all of China's military force under his own banner and assign them to front lines. He will have time to carry out massive fortifification project of and around Nanking.

The longer time of peace Japan give to them (USSR and ROC), the stronger and better prepared the ROC becomes, against a potential Japanese attack. And the Russians will be more than happy to supply China with Arms and factories, knowing that those weapons will be first aimed at the Japanese. In the long run, you don't want to be on the defensive against countries that has a larger population, and a larger industrial potential than you. As soon as Japan took Manchuria, they are doomed to carrying on attacking and invading the rest of China.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
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Nobody ever taught me about this in school.

Dude, I thought this would be common knowledge. I mean just look at ROC National Revolutionary Army's gears during WW2, look at their helmets. Those were German helmets. The most prolific hand gun during the war in China was the Mauser C96. The main rifle used by Chinese forces was the Chiang Kai-shek rifle (中正式), which is literally a licensed copy of the Mauser Standardmodell.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Dude, I thought this would be common knowledge. I mean just look at ROC National Revolutionary Army's gears during WW2, look at their helmets. Those were German helmets. The most prolific hand gun during the war in China was the Mauser C96. The main rifle used by Chinese forces was the Chiang Kai-shek rifle (中正式), which is literally a licensed copy of the Mauser Standardmodell.

I didn’t know China was a resource life line to Germany D:
 

TaskDakota

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Japanese are fools because all they do is “Monkey see, Monkey want, Monkey grab", they don't think about consequences, they don't think about potential threats, they don't think about societal trend, they don't think about culture, they don't think about how their rivals will act, they only think about what can see and what they desire. They see Manchuria and say: "me want this!", and they dig in. And that is the start of their doom.
I mean if this was the actual mindset of Japanese high command i doubt it would've come as far as it did in the first place, fairly sure they thought about the consequences of certain actions, in some instances they had underestimated it but still they did think of it.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
I mean if this was the actual mindset of Japanese high command i doubt it would've come as far as it did in the first place, fairly sure they thought about the consequences of certain actions, in some instances they had underestimated it but still they did think of it.
Well, if you have any idea of what China really looks like in the first two decades after 1911 revolution, everything will make sense. Most American learn about China history in a way that serves the political rhetoric of the US and the West. They are taught that immediately after 1911, it was all about "KMT vs Communists". In fact, it was never the case. The early era of is so-called "Republic of China" would be a totally chaotic hellhole of a fail state by today's standard. In fact, the KMT didn't even formally come to existence until 1919 (it was formerly known as 同盟会). In fact, the Japanese didn't come as nearly as far as they should have.
 

Michaelwuerth

Just Hatched
Registered Member
We have numerous discussions that crop up all the time on the forum about World War II, what happened during that war, and strategies that were involved.

Unfortunatly, those discussions generally take the threads that they occur in far off topic.

So, this thread is for discussing thoe matters.

But please, no conspiracy theories, no "abject what ifs", and no historical/culutral finger pointing, revenge, political, etc. talk. Keep it on the historical record about the actual combat and campagns, and on the strategies that were actually used and how they influenced the outcomes. The other type discussions will be deleted with warnings, and then, if not halted, will result in suspensions.

Other than that...that is what this thread is for. I will be moving some posts over here from the Aircraft Carrier II thread.
I read the forum on the battle off Samar. The question often comes up as to why Kurita turned back when he did. Those who have much more information than I do may be to provide another possible motive which I have not seen in any books or web pages I have read to this point. Most battleships at that time were provided with 100 shells per barrel for the primary batteries. The destroyers in taffy 3 had 350 shells per 5 inch barrel. At least one of them expended all it’s five inch shells. Japan had nearly 50 ships assigned to the southern and center force. Someone with significant knowledge of magazine capabilities could probably give a breakdown by ship the number of shells of 5 inch or greater and the number of torpedos carried by these task groups as they headed towards the Philippines. If one were to subtract out the ships lost or turned back plus the estimated shells and torpedos expended on taffy 3, what remained in the center force might have been only a paper tiger compared to the original task forces. The second consideration is that the center force was under nearly constant air attack for nearly three hours without any air cover. This would have been the longest time during the war that a task group would have been under air attack without defending aircraft. Could Kurita have considered turning back because he realized that the magazines might be nearly empty of shells by the time he arrived at the US transport and supply ships which were still nearly two hours away?
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
Well during long march the Chinese worker and peasant army has to cross Jiangxi, Hunan, Guangxi, Guizhou, Yunnan, Sichuan and Gansu before it head north to Shaanxi without bringing food and ration they are totally dependent on the generosity of Tribe people along the way. It is then general Li Baocheng swore brother hood with local chief by drinking chicken blood and promise they will make life better for the tribe man. I am glad that they fulfill their promise
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Chinese president Xi Jinping is on the southern visit to Guangxi
Chinese President Xi Jinping visited Nanning, capital of south China's Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region on April 27. Xi talked to people of different ethnic groups who participated in festive activities outside the Anthropology Museum of Guangxi. Xi said that "No one would be left behind on the way to poverty alleviation."
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Long March Begins: October 16, 1934​

With defeat imminent, the Communists decided to break out of the encirclement at its weakest points, and the Long March began on October 16, 1934. Secrecy and other tactics confused the Nationalists, and it was several weeks before they realized that the main body of the Red army had fled. The retreating force initially consisted of more than 85,000 troops, by some estimates, and thousands of accompanying personnel. Weapons and supplies were borne on men’s backs or in horse-drawn carts, and the line of marchers stretched for miles. The Communists generally marched at night, and when the enemy was not near, a long column of torches could be seen snaking over valleys and hills into the distance.


Mao began to regain his influence, and in January, during a meeting of party leaders in the captured city of Zunyi, he re-emerged as a top military and political leader. He then changed strategy, breaking his force into several columns that would take varying paths to confuse the enemy. And the destination would now be Shaanxi province, in the northwestern region of the country, where the Communists hoped to fight the Japanese invaders and earn the respect of China’s masses.

Long March Ends: October 20, 1935​

After enduring starvation, aerial bombardment and almost daily skirmishes with Nationalist forces, Mao halted his columns in northern Shaanxi on October 20, 1935, where they met other Red army troops. The Long March was over. By some estimates, 8,000 or fewer marchers completed the journey, which covered more than 4,000 miles and crossed 24 rivers and 18 mountain ranges.

The Long March marked the emergence of Mao Zedong as the undisputed leader of the Chinese Communists. Learning of the Communists’ heroism and determination in the Long March, thousands of young Chinese traveled to Shaanxi to enlist in Mao’s Red army. After fighting the Japanese for a decade, the Chinese
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resumed soon after the end of
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(1939-45). In 1949, the Nationalists were defeated, and Mao proclaimed the People’s Republic of China. He served as head of the Communist Party of China until his death in 1976.
 

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