Weakness of the PLAN

T

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Well, USN likes to say that best weapon against a submarine is another submarine. But basically, only real weapon is good sonar/antisub torpedo combination. Helicopters seem to be asw platforms of choice for surface fleets. They have sonars that they lower/dip into water, track for subs, can quickly change position (compared to surface fleet/other subs) and then launch torpedoes. Whereas using an active sonar on a surface ship/sub would pretty much give away the position of it from miles away, endangering the ship/sub, helos can go out of ships trajectories/miles in advance of the mother ship and actively seek subs without fear of being engaged by sub or giving endangering their mother ship.

As for why china doesnt seem to be pushing asw capabilities... i guess they dont think conflict with USN is likely. And that's pretty much only enemy where strong asw would be needed. All the other neighbours and especially taiwan as most likely enemy, have much weaker sub forces.
 
T

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
walter said:
Do you think China is or is not striving towards military super power status?
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Its not striving towards becoming a military super power status the way us is. It is my opinion their goal is to be strong enough to wage war with any country, including US, which would definitely label them a military super power but i don't believe they're seeking a global military super power status that US has and wants. Basically, at least till 2050 i don't see china trying to project military power outside easter indian ocean and western pacific ocean. Nuclear forces, yeah, they'll keep those, to deter other countries from any funny ideas, but making forces capable waging large scale wars half a globe away - no.

bd popeye said:
So your idea is to have a navy that could meet challenges as they arise without playing world policeman? Correct?..That's power projection to some extent on a case by case basis. Similar to the UK and France.
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Very similar, yes. I'd say France and especially UK are good examples. Russia would be a bad example as in its current state theres still too many cold war army remnants, lingering from the cold war doctrines and their goal to be shoulder to shoulder with US. :p
 
M

McZosch

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Basically, at least till 2050 i don't see china trying to project military power outside easter indian ocean and western pacific ocean.
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India will be interested to hear that.

PLAN has three external problems: the "unsinkable aircraft carriers" Taiwan, Japan and USA. And one internal: talk, talk, talk.

All of them have modern and capable navies. With 4 DDH-class ships (and likely procurement of JSFs), Japan will have 8 aircraft-capable ships by 2010.

What does China have? A few modern destroyers and frigates, and a big bunch of mostly obsolete equipment.

Modern equipment is mostly talked about here than built. In the same time, Japan builds another 4 Kongos, the USN 14 Burkes and 2 CVN.

China posseses large numbers of subs.
What are subs originally supposed to do? They were build as a jeune-ecole option against a large battle-fleet. They should make it more risky for the superior navy to attack the inferior. Subs are entirely lacking force-projection-capabilities. Tactically, they are offensive ships. Strategically, they are defensive. So it is a defensive doctrine. No war has been won, only using subs.
 
FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Major
McZosch said:
India will be interested to hear that.

PLAN has three external problems: the "unsinkable aircraft carriers" Taiwan, Japan and USA. And one internal: talk, talk, talk.

All of them have modern and capable navies. With 4 DDH-class ships (and likely procurement of JSFs), Japan will have 8 aircraft-capable ships by 2010.

What does China have? A few modern destroyers and frigates, and a big bunch of mostly obsolete equipment.

Modern equipment is mostly talked about here than built. In the same time, Japan builds another 4 Kongos, the USN 14 Burkes and 2 CVN.

China posseses large numbers of subs.
What are subs originally supposed to do? They were build as a jeune-ecole option against a large battle-fleet. They should make it more risky for the superior navy to attack the inferior. Subs are entirely lacking force-projection-capabilities. Tactically, they are offensive ships. Strategically, they are defensive. So it is a defensive doctrine. No war has been won, only using subs.
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If Hitler was only smarter and let his naval strategists do what they needed to do, then the U-boats could've won WWII for Hitler.
 
MIGleader

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
a few kidds and lafeyettes do not give taiwan a modern navy. china is building two new destroyers, ordered two more, and is building and ordering many subs. they are also considering a carrier, not just talking it.

You seem like a popagandad american mczosch.
 
I

IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
MIGleader said:
a few kidds and lafeyettes do not give taiwan a modern navy. china is building two new destroyers, ordered two more, and is building and ordering many subs. they are also considering a carrier, not just talking it.

You seem like a popagandad american mczosch.
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Those 4 Kidds are more modern than the entire PLAAF fleet. Standard 2 with New Threat Upgrade(NTU) are nothing to laugh about.
 
FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Major
IDonT said:
Those 4 Kidds are more modern than the entire PLAAF fleet. Standard 2 with New Threat Upgrade(NTU) are nothing to laugh about.
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Cool, you must feel special! You are like the only person on earth to consider a Kidd as more capable than a 956EM. At best, the Kidd is only marginally superior to the 051C. The 052 Destroyers are also not far behind the Kidd. After all, the 052s have their own AEGIS-like system.
 
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