US conflict in the Americas

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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is quite a bad and irrelevant take.

China ran an empire that had no real external challenges. In the ancient world, it was mostly internal conflicts and pathetically weak external threats.

The first time China met against properly organised external threat in the form of European imperialist powers, it resulted in China's greatest decline and turmoil in its entire written history. In the modern era, those European/Western imperialist powers are even stronger than they were in the past and even more organised. They do not fight among each other for scraps anymore they act in line as a unit. There is bulletproof loyalty and unity when it comes to the Western alliance even non-western people fall in line because they get live the benefits.

There is quite a lot of "cope" and bad takes in this forum sometimes where we project China's phenomenal material capability with its ability to navigate geopolitics. China is a total loser in geopolitics and gets its name dragged through the mud all the time.

We need to understand this if we are to fix it. It's the job for Chinese leaders to understand this properly and figure out solutions. If they can't, may as well be a Japan level underling. At least people can live well. Alternative is to go absolute scorched earth. I personally think Chinese leaders have all this in mind but understand the relative standing of power here is not entirely in its favour when it comes to matching not only the US but also every single one of its allies combined.
China has nuclear weapons and is tied closely to Russia and North Korea, which are also nuclear powers. I think we'll be all right bro. Otherwise the European powers can try again, fuck around and find out like the French did in Vietnam or the South Koreans when the PVA sacked Seoul.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I genuinely, sincerely wish you are correct.
Chinese intellect is unrivalled; of that, I am certain. We came out of a time when the vast majority of Chinese scientists would choose to go to the US than stay in China. That was the darkest time and made people wonder if the US truly could not be beaten. But we walked out from that into a nation that is already technologically superior to the US in many, if not most critical fields. I have nothing but confidence.
I do hope US suffers disproportionately large blowback on its reputation for this and absolutely fails to make much if anything of the whole effort and it stops at meddling in Panama and this bizarre move on Venezuela.

It's best to be prepared for the worst though. Chinese leaders ought to be considering the worst and making plans and taking action. China showed us the military window isn't only closed, it's gone above the US in every single way except numbers of some platforms and numbers of nukes. Trade China wins, tech China wins. American is trying hard by scaling its reach back, preserving influence they have and hunkering down in its region and bullying/ forcefully taking over its neighbours. It's gone way past using financial crimes to harvest the world, it's openly taking over 18th and 19th century style. I would prefer the world give it a find out and place costs on doing these things but the demon is hard to slay.
The US won't suffer significant blowback. The US retreating into its own sphere and hunkering down there because China gave it a bloody nose with the rare earths and now looks impervious is good, but realistically, Venezuela would be in America's sphere.

When I saw the news this morning, I knew there would be overreaction on this thread because China couldn't save Maduro.

At the earliest, China needed to become a nation that the US could not invade; that was questionable until Mao won and America did not dare to militarily support the KMT.

Then was phase 2; during the Korean and Vietnam Wars, China showed that it could protect its bordering countries with its army, despite its air force and navy lagging seriously behind the US. These wars further cemented that the US did not dare invade China even when at war as MacArthur was fired by Eisenhower for wanting to do this.

Phase 3 is domination of Asia over air and water; there is no hot war yet to prove it but it is widely believed that China's current air force, navy and artillery mean that in Asia, with geographical advantages, the US would be defeated by China in China's backyard.

We are currently moving to phase 4, where we are building the most sophisticated aircraft carriers, destroyers, drone fighters and 6th gen fighters so that we can win over the US in fair conventional fight like over the pacific and take US outposts like Guam and Hawaii in times of war.

Phase 5, if we get there, is total Chinese global domination. If the US acts ancy with Cuba or some other country in its backyard, China sends our navy to shut them down. Maduro needed us to be here, but we are just wrapping up phase 3 entering phase 4.

All we have to do is keep developing faster than the US and these phases will all fall in place. Perhaps the most comforting is that seeing China progress, the US has not chosen a competitive path by appealing to global talent and focusing on STEM education of its own population but it has chosen a path of rage, essentially letting the most angry and uneducated people run the country for emotional gratitude. Perhaps that is the greatest weakness of democracy.
 
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weegee

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Chinese intellect is unrivalled; of that, I am certain. We came out of a time when the vast majority of Chinese scientists would choose to go to the US than stay in China. That was the darkest time and made people wonder if the US truly could not be beaten. But we walked out from that into a nation that is already technologically superior to the US in many, if not most critical fields. I have nothing but confidence.

The US won't suffer significant blowback. The US retreating into its own sphere and hunkering down there because China gave it a bloody nose with the rare earths and now looks impervious is good, but realistically, Venezuela would be in America's sphere.

When I saw the news this morning, I knew there would be overreaction on this thread.

At the earliest, China needed to become a nation that the US could not invade; that was questionable until Mao won and America did not dare to militarily support the KMT.

Then was phase 2; during the Korean and Vietnam Wars, China showed that it could protect its bordering countries with its army, despite its air force and navy lagging seriously behind the US.

Phase 3 is domination of Asia over air and water; there is no hot war yet to prove it but it is widely believed that China's current air force, navy and artillery mean that in Asia, with geographical advantages, the US would be defeated by China in China's backyard.

We are currently moving to phase 4, where we are building the most sophisticated aircraft carriers, destroyers, drone fighters and 6th gen fighters so that we can win over the US in fair conventional fight like over the pacific and take US outposts like Guam and Hawaii.

Phase 5, if we get there, is total Chinese global domination. If the US acts ancy with Cuba or some other country in its backyard, China sends our navy to shut them down. Maduro needed us to be here, but we are just wrapping up phase 3 entering phase 4.

All we have to do is keep developing faster than the US and these phases will all fall in place. Perhaps the most comforting is that seeing China progress, the US has not chosen an competitive path by appealing to global talent and focusing on STEM education of its own population but it has chosen a path of rage, essentially letting the most angry and uneducated people run the country for emotional gratitude. Perhaps that is the greatest weakness of democracy.
Phase 3-4 would be the hardest, Taiwan is like that hard turd stuck in your anal, when it comes through all will come through, then the world topology will be clear for the next 50 years, Japan is the only uncertainty though
 

A potato

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese intellect is unrivalled; of that, I am certain. We came out of a time when the vast majority of Chinese scientists would choose to go to the US than stay in China. That was the darkest time and made people wonder if the US truly could not be beaten. But we walked out from that into a nation that is already technologically superior to the US in many, if not most critical fields. I have nothing but confidence.

The US won't suffer significant blowback. The US retreating into its own sphere and hunkering down there because China gave it a bloody nose with the rare earths and now looks impervious is good, but realistically, Venezuela would be in America's sphere.

When I saw the news this morning, I knew there would be overreaction on this thread because China couldn't save Maduro.

At the earliest, China needed to become a nation that the US could not invade; that was questionable until Mao won and America did not dare to militarily support the KMT.

Then was phase 2; during the Korean and Vietnam Wars, China showed that it could protect its bordering countries with its army, despite its air force and navy lagging seriously behind the US.

Phase 3 is domination of Asia over air and water; there is no hot war yet to prove it but it is widely believed that China's current air force, navy and artillery mean that in Asia, with geographical advantages, the US would be defeated by China in China's backyard.

We are currently moving to phase 4, where we are building the most sophisticated aircraft carriers, destroyers, drone fighters and 6th gen fighters so that we can win over the US in fair conventional fight like over the pacific and take US outposts like Guam and Hawaii.

Phase 5, if we get there, is total Chinese global domination. If the US acts ancy with Cuba or some other country in its backyard, China sends our navy to shut them down. Maduro needed us to be here, but we are just wrapping up phase 3 entering phase 4.

All we have to do is keep developing faster than the US and these phases will all fall in place. Perhaps the most comforting is that seeing China progress, the US has not chosen an competitive path by appealing to global talent and focusing on STEM education of its own population but it has chosen a path of rage, essentially letting the most angry and uneducated people run the country for emotional gratitude. Perhaps that is the greatest weakness of democracy.
I mean Jiang was so useless that there’re generals who suggest partnering with the ccp. And around 30 years later PRC and US would become allies before America stabbed China in the back.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Phase 3-4 would be the hardest, Taiwan is like that hard turd stuck in your anal, when it comes through all will come through, then the world topology will be clear for the next 50 years, Japan is the only uncertainty though
No, it's the opposite. Taiwan's actually easy, especially if you didn't care about killing a lot of people to make your point. Rather, 3 looks done but not obvious to all. 4 is coming along in the early to perhaps early-mid phase. Once it's obvious that China has 3, Taiwan is come for free. But for 3 to become obvious to those who are purposefully blind without the proof from actually winning a war, we may need late 4 or even early 5.

Either way, in the mean time, Taiwan serves as excellent motivation for China's military drive to go forth with as much steam as possible. Taking Taiwan with bloodshed now would be a disservice to China's military growth since it would take away a lot of purpose from the PLA before we reached 4-5. After Taiwan is reunited, really, we are content with 3 so to attain 4-5, we should have them before we take Taiwan or we may lose the drive to get them afterwards.
 

tamsen_ikard

Captain
Registered Member
All the people who think any other country including China can do something similar like what US operation did, do not understand geopolitics at all. This was not a demonstration of US military power, but the overwhelming power of US soft power and wealth. This was the demo of US ability to infiltrate deep into corrupt countries with bribery and enticement about better life.

Corrupt elites of these third world countries usually give up without a fight because they are enticed by the extreme wealth in US. They see life in US as comfortable. They can also move freely, do whatever they want, buy whatever they want. Compare that with China with much lower GDP per capita, extreme competition for jobs and education, restriction everywhere for peope to buy property or even get benefits due to restrictive Hukou. Life in China is simply not seen as lucrative for corrupt elites of another country.

Why is this important, because these elites want to live in the US if things do not work out and they have to flee. Venezuelan public was also very much greedy to move to US and have a better life. They see US as the shining hill of wealth and opportunities. So, they naturally want to bow down to US. And if there is a coup fomented by US, they do not resist.

This is also how Ukraine got converted to become so pro-EU. The allure of wealth and good life in the EU was a much more attractive to them then bowing down to poor Russia which they see as uncivilized and aggressive.

Taiwan and Japan are richer than China and do not have any positive feeling about bowing down to China. So, if China wants to apply pressure, they fight back. They will fight back with everything they have.

US can win without a fight due to its advantage as being an "old money" country. It has reputaton as a land of opportunities. This is big draw for elites of the entire world. China needs to become much more richer and life should become much more comfortable before China can invade another country without that country ever fighting back.
 

weegee

Just Hatched
Registered Member
No, it's the opposite. Taiwan's actually easy, especially if you didn't care about killing a lot of people to make your point. Rather, 3 looks done but not obvious to all. 4 is coming along in the early to perhaps early-mid phase. Once it's obvious that China has 3, Taiwan is come for free. But for 3 to become obvious to those who are purposefully blind without the proof from actually winning a war, we may need late 4 or even early 5.

Either way, in the mean time, Taiwan serves as excellent motivation for China's military drive to go forth with as much steam as possible. Taking Taiwan with bloodshed now would be a disservice to China's military growth since it would take away a lot of purpose from the PLA before we reached 4-5. After Taiwan is reunited, really, we are content with 3 so to attain 4-5, we should have them before we take Taiwan or we may lose the drive to get them afterwards.
you would be really unhinged saying something like that for something that hasn't happened yet especially on 'if you didn't care about killing a lot of people', Taiwan is the final puzzle and the hardest one, its long term commitment, one step wrong, it would be 100x worse than the case of Hongkong (HK's actually being very successful unlike many others would say), fortunately the CCP is never opportunistic and over optimistic, while in hardship they are also everything but pessimistic, a pure realist throughout.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
you would be really unhinged saying something like that for something that hasn't happened yet especially on 'if you didn't care about killing a lot of people', Taiwan is the final puzzle and the hardest one, its long term commitment, one step wrong, it would be 100x worse than the case of Hongkong (HK's actually being very successful unlike many others would say), fortunately the CCP is never opportunistic and over optimistic, while in hardship they are also everything but pessimistic, a pure realist throughout.
So phases 1-5 talk about military progress, so saying that it's easy to take Taiwan if you don't care about killing a lot of people is from a military capability standpoint. From that standpoint, it is not hard at all.

You think it's difficult because you are thinking that in today's current situation, it would be difficult taking Taiwan without significant bloodshed and holding it without terrorism issues. I have no idea why you think it's the hardest one, especially because intimidating the US militarily into submission over Cuba is on the list. But once China's military dominance over the US is obvious, Taiwan is the final step and will happen spontaneously because they will all see that it is completely futile to fight China or hope others would fight China for them. Your analogy of the final puzzle piece is actually quite perfect, because in all puzzles, the final piece is the easiest and falls into place by itself.
 
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