Unrest in Tibet!!

Schumacher said:

Calm down AssassinsMace, I've done research on Indonesia. The uprising there in the 60s resulted in up to half a million deaths depending on who you believe. From studies by overseas Chinese in South East Asia & I've even seen an archive of an old Indon intelligence report, Chinese there mainly suffered looting of their businesses. Far fewer deaths compared to the natives. The cultural curbs were very real though. It was Western sources which tended to exaggerate the uprising as being anti-Chinese to move Indonesia from the hold of Communist powers in those days.

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Don't worry, I like spicing things up like the anti-China propagandists. Just giving a taste of their own medicine.

What I read was the US was annoyed that the Indosnesians weren't dealing with their communists as they wanted. So they just killed everyone they could that was Chinese.

Finn McCool said:

.....What hope is there for Tibet? What course of action can they take? China seems to have them at every turn.

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IMO, what hope ? Very hard to say. Minorities in every part of the world have problems, it's a problem since forever. If anyone can solve it, he/she should get ten Noble prizes.
Frankly, I don't think the Tibetans' 'plight' is even near the worse among all minorities/natives issues around the world.
What should they do ? Perhaps some genuine dialog away from the media with the Chinese. And I don't mean the DL, the Chinese don't trust him & frankly neither do I. He looks too much like one of those media guys & I just don't have good impression of these people.

Finn McCool said:

Now that's just silly. It's a low blow and you know it. Like saying Obama is a Muslim. The man was in the SS so he could continue his climbing carrer and go to the Himilayas. The only way to do that in 1930s Germany was to play the Nazi's game and join the SS so they could show of their "Aryan supermen" doing incredible feats of derring-do. The man wasn't a Nazi, he never commited any crimes, I'm pretty sure he never recieved any combat training or anything.

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No different from calling the 2008 Olympics the "Genocide Olympics." Or how some are comparing this Olympics to the 1936 Nazi Olympics.

Finn McCool said:

Full disclosure here: I'm a member of the Free Tibet club at school, and I asked Popeye to open this thread to raise awareness on this issue (Thank you very much Popeye )
With that said I will try to approach this question in the most objective manner possible.

The Tibetians certainly hurt their cause and opened themselves up to legitimate retribution when the killed and looted. I can't say I support that; I don't support violence against civillians of any type. The motive behind this was three-fold: The Tibetians released decades of pent up frustration at being ignored and oppressed by the CCP, they wanted to dissuade further Chinese migration to Tibet (the ultimate Chinese weapon against the Tibetian self-determination movement) and they wanted to cause a major incident that would attract attention and mar the Olympics.

No nation will truly back the Tibetians; China is too powerful. China is not a democratic country, so continual peaceful protest will not have any affect. Armed resistance is foolish and impossible, China is too powerful and more importantly ruthless, and it would result in the Tibetians losing their moral superiority (which is already tenuous, based on the opinions expressed by some in this discussion).

The best Tibet can hope for is some sort of limited autonomy from China, and an end to Chinese efforts to supress Tibetian culture. That is all I hope for.

What hope is there for Tibet? What course of action can they take? China seems to have them at every turn.

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There's a free Tibet club at your school? Doesn't that constitute as a hate club (or in this case, hate China club) and should be illegal?

In any case, I don't know what you do in that club, but you really should know some Tibetan history and slip out of that "hate China" mentality. Start that lesson by watching Youtube, or specifically this video: . I find it provides a good summary of the situation and answers some of your questions in seven minutes with entertaining background music, and it's really popular too.

To answer your final question, the best course of action is to smuggle the Dalai Lama back into Tibet. This way, the Tibetans can feel at peace with their identity and no one will have an excuse to flee "Chinese oppression" to seek the Dalai Lama. Instead of Free Tibet club, as the Dalai Lama opposes independence for Tibet, why don't you create a "Bring Dalai Lama back to Tibet" club? Its goals are more realistic anyways, and while you are at it, read some of my past responses as well

Finn McCool said:

The motive behind this was three-fold: The Tibetians released decades of pent up frustration at being ignored and oppressed by the CCP.

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Ask your self why is it only youth on the streets rioting while those who were truely oppressed tibetans with decades of pent up frustration stayed home to watch.

I reather believe this is being flaired up and serves a political agenda rather than frustration at the government.

Now ask your self who's going to benefit from such action.

Finn McCool said:

they wanted to dissuade further Chinese migration to Tibet (the ultimate Chinese weapon against the Tibetian self-determination movement)

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Chinese see development as the sole course of the future. What we consider to be culture/freedom, they see it as ignorance and weakness. Different mentality means Tiet modernization is at the fore front of CCP agenda.

Tibetans don't only want to dissuade further Chinese migration to Tibet but also to root out local indiginous minority that has for centuries been an ugly sore in their eyes.

Tibet for Tibetans is as much an racist movement as any in the past.

Multicultiralization does not work as long as one population is willing to kill off everyone else

Finn McCool said:

and they wanted to cause a major incident that would attract attention and mar the Olympics.

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Pretty much a given. The timing also coinsides with the National People's Congress where the Tibet leader ship is currently undisposed in Beijing.

Rumor time: Chinese BBS poster suggested TI (T for Tibet) agents armed with large amounts of explosives and expert foreign training have arrived in Chengdu. Military/police are on full alert.

This reminds me of a news story about a husband who keeps abusing his wife until the day his wife slaps him back. The husband then cries and complains his wife is violent.

Maybe they should try divorce. I guess the problem is who should move out the house.

The biggest problem here is China keeps overreacting and assuming too much. While I have no doubt members of the Tibetan exile government had a hand in these protests they're too quick to blame the Dalai Lama.

I think the Dalai Lama truly is interested in peace and is not planning for independence.

At the time of the 1959 uprising the Dalai Lama was little more than a puppet of the powerful nobility. It seems likely this is yet another case where the Dalai Lama is being sidelined by the less peace-loving Tibetans.

aquauant said:

This reminds me of a news story about a husband who keeps abusing his wife until the day his wife slaps him back. The husband then cries and complains his wife is violent.

Maybe they should try divorce. I guess the problem is who should move out the house.

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The only problem with your analogy is not only the wife slap She also maimed and killed the husband Now bring that argument in front of the jury and judge!

Ryz05 said:

There's a free Tibet club at your school? Doesn't that constitute as a hate club (or in this case, hate China club) and should be illegal?

In any case, I don't know what you do in that club, but you really should know some Tibetan history and slip out of that "hate China" mentality. Start that lesson by watching Youtube, or specifically this video.

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Well first off I think that you should realize that I don't "hate China". You should see that from the fact that I am a member of this website and have frequently in my postings denounced the "China threat" frame of mind that so many Western politicians and posters have. Just because I have a lot of sympathy for the Tibetans doesn't mean that I hate China. Keep that in mind and everyone will come away from this discussion with a more enlightened point of view. I fully realize that the Chinese government has duty to protect its citizens.

Secondly we haven't done anything anti-Chinese, nor should it be remotely classified as a "hate club". We put on a concert to raise money for Tibetian exile organizations and raise awareness on the issue. And I know quite a bit about the history of Tibet thank you very much. Don't presume that just because someone disagrees with you that they are underinformed.

Ask your self why is it only youth on the streets rioting while those who were truely oppressed tibetans with decades of pent up frustration stayed home to watch.

I reather believe this is being flaired up and serves a political agenda rather than frustration at the government.

Now ask your self who's going to benefit from such action.

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Yes. The riots flared up to promote a political agenda. A political agenda that is a response to Tibetan greviances against the Chinese government. The young took part because in instances like this the young always lead the way.

As I said the Chinese government has a duty to protect its citizens. Thus I cannot fault it for restoring order and arresting rioters. The same would be expected in the US. But the Chinese government has a duty to protect ALL its citizens. Hans, Tibetans, everyone. Equally. All governments have that duty. Tibetans have legitimate greviances because China has failed to do its duty towards them, instead treating them as subjects whose culture is a danger to national unity. That is where I, as a foreigner, become involved. The possibility that Chinese government action could directly result in the end of Tibetan language, religon and culture is something that would damage the entire world. Combined with humans rights violations, this gives foreigners the right to become involved.

I have stated my case and beliefs as well as I can in a short period of time; I do not intend to offend or cause a flame war.