Unrest in Tibet!!

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hallo84

New Member
This is interesting, after conducting the most violent attacks in Tibet in recent years they seems to be preparing more violent campaigns. Either the DL is genuinely being sidelined or that this is just part of a media campaign before formally dropping all pretense of non-violence which I think none really take seriously anyway after last week's violence.

Which really means they are getiing desperate. The violent campaign will show the western Tibet sympathizers what Free Tibet movement really is.

The real losers is Tibetans who will be caught between CCP reluctance to futher political autonomy in the region and much less attention from the world stage. Worse yet CCP may opt for a replay of the Russian solution to seperatists. Lose lose anyway I see it.
 
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Ryz05

Junior Member
One question: why is the Dalai Lama still in India?

If the Dalai Lama doesn't want Tibet independence from China, then why doesn't he go back to Tibet? He can stage a forced march back to his ancestral homeland and Tibetan people the same way as he fled almost 50 years ago. This way, no more Tibetans can have an excuse to flee from Tibet to join the Dalai Lama in India. The Dalai Lama really need to work out a solution with the Chinese government for a return, especially before he dies, because that's the only way to ensure his succession and the preservation of Tibetan culture around the Dalai Lama. The people are angry with him not because he's promoting non-violence, but because he's not returning to his homeland and working out a successful solution with the Chinese government for that return. The only way for the Dalai Lama's return, according to those Tibetans demanding violence, is for the separation of Tibet from Chinese rule, so why can't the Dalai Lama realize that? If Dalai Lama prefers India over Tibet, then at least he should say that he enjoys staying in the warm climate of India than the frigid cold of the high mountains.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
A Spanish tourist's eyewitness account of the 'peaceful' protests. Maybe it's just me, but looks like plain looting & lynching to me.

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Title : Witness says Tibetans rampaged through Lhasa against Chinese
By :
Date : 17 Mar 2008 1117 hrs (GMT + 8hrs)

CHENGDU, China: Enraged Tibet an youths embarked on a rampage of destruction against Chinese businesses in Lhasa that left parts of the once-fabled city in ruins, according to one tourist who saw the protests.

Juan Carlos Alonso, 46, a Spaniard staying on Beijing Street in the old quarter near some of Lhasa's holiest shrines, recounted how he saw Tibet an anger toward the Chinese boil over into violence.

"The purpose was to destroy everything on that main street, beginning with all the Chinese stores and restaurants," Alonso told AFP after arriving in Chengdu airport late Sunday before catching a flight home.

"The restaurant owners and those Chinese on the street had to hide," said the former employee of a German engineering firm who had a first-hand view of the onslaught in the streets of Lhasa on Friday.

"They (the Chinese) lowered the shutters, but the Tibet ans kicked their way in, dragging people out, beating them with stones. There were knifes, stones, machetes, butcher knifes -- they were using everything that came to hand."

"Many Chinese were running for their lives," Alonso said, estimating that he had seen at least 35 ethnic Chinese covered in blood, but had not seen any dead.

Describing the masses of rioters as mainly Tibet an men in their late teens with only a few monks in the crowd, he said that in front of the Banakshol hotel where he was staying, all the stores and restaurants had been ransacked.

"There are none left, they've all been burnt," he said.

Alonso, who arrived in the city on Wednesday, said the tension between Tibet an and Chinese police had been palpable before youths exploded with rage.

The unrest in Lhasa began on March 10, the 49th anniversary of a failed Tibet an uprising that led the Dalai Lama to flee into exile in India. China's atheist communist rulers have controlled the devoutly Buddhist region since 1951.

"I was not afraid," continued Alonso. "I knew they weren't going after me. It would be one thing if they said 'get the Spaniard,' but the Tibet ans were going after the Chinese."

"One girl, they grabbed her on the street and took her towards a door before kicking and stoning her. The girl was crying out for help."

As vehicles, storefronts and restaurants burned late Friday, the Chinese military rolled in with tanks and armoured vehicles. Alonso said he and a Dutch couple he had befriended knew it was time to escape.

"There was a time (Friday night) when shots were fired. Then on Saturday morning there were shots -- several bursts of them."

"With every passing moment, there were more and more soldiers. We said, 'we're leaving'."

As Alonso and his friends cut through back streets swarming with heavily armed Chinese troops, the Spaniard said parts of the ancient city were already in ruin.

Buildings and cars burned, while all manner of goods -- rice, flour, meat, dresses, textiles, desks, chairs -- littered the streets.

"At one point, one super aggressive Chinese military guy came up to us yelling," Alonso said.

"The guy grabbed his gun, shot bang, bang, bang into the air. I thought to myself, 'He better not drop his machine gun.'"

With foreign journalists being denied entry into Lhasa, it is impossible to determine how many people were killed in the violence.

Thirteen people were killed, the chairman of Tibet 's government, Qiangba Puncog, told reporters in Beijing. Exiled Tibet an groups say about 80 Tibet ans were killed, and possibly many more.

"Both sides are victims here. That's the way it is when politics are involved," Alonso said. - AFP/ac
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Never knew you're from Indonesia, Autumn Child. Actually, like the Indonesian uprising in the 60s, the one in Tibet in I think the late 50s was said to be heavily influenced by CIA as part of the anti-Communist campaigns. Many reports of CIA pulling the strings of Dalai Lama. Don't know abt now, but in the anti-Communist hysteria of the 50s & 60s, I'd be more surprised if it's not true.

"Never again!"

"Enough!"

No Westerner speaks of the one million Chinese that were massacred in less than a month in Indonesia during the Cold War. Why? Because the US and Australia pushed the Indonesians to do it. Worse than Darfur. Worse than Rwanda. And some people don't understand why some countries don't listen to the West. The Chinese can use the same excuse being used for Tibetan violence. If there's no address, it's going to explode. And Indonesia wasn't the only massacre of Chinese civilians sponsored by the West.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
Which really means they are getiing desperate. The violent campaign will show the western Tibet sympathizers what Free Tibet movement really is.

The real losers is Tibetans who will be caught between CCP reluctance to futher political automity in the region and much less attention from the world stage. Worse yet CCP may opt for a replay of the Russian solution to seperatists. Lose lose anyway I see it.

Frankly, I doubt the 'western Tibet sympathizers' will admit the violent nature of the Tibetan movement even if a WMD is used by them against Chinese targets.
I don't think the DL is foolish enough to openly turn to violence, I think the PLA should be able to handle the situation.
Then again, maybe he is after seeing how he send his people to do the dirty job while enjoying the media attention in comfort.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
One question: why is the Dalai Lama still in India?

If the Dalai Lama doesn't want Tibet independence from China, then why doesn't he go back to Tibet? He can stage a forced march back to his ancestral homeland and Tibetan people the same way as he fled almost 50 years ago. This way, no more Tibetans can have an excuse to flee from Tibet to join the Dalai Lama in India. The Dalai Lama really need to work out a solution with the Chinese government for a return, especially before he dies, because that's the only way to ensure his succession and the preservation of Tibetan culture around the Dalai Lama. The people are angry with him not because he's promoting non-violence, but because he's not returning to his homeland and working out a successful solution with the Chinese government for that return. The only way for the Dalai Lama's return, according to those Tibetans demanding violence, is for the separation of Tibet from Chinese rule, so why can't the Dalai Lama realize that? If Dalai Lama prefers India over Tibet, then at least he should say that he enjoys staying in the warm climate of India than the frigid cold of the high mountains.

Beijing refuses to speak to him because they believe he's lying about being okay with autonomy. And with current events he can basically kiss good-bye ever seeing Tibet again. The reason why he doesn't go is because he believes he'll be killed. I know of Chinese-Americans that are pro-Tibet and they have attended functions in the US with the Dalai Lama even though because they are Chinese they have to be given a background check. I've even heard about that they have to wear some sort of pin and if they're caught without it, they can be thrown out of the event. Surveillance device?
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Full disclosure here: I'm a member of the Free Tibet club at school, and I asked Popeye to open this thread to raise awareness on this issue (Thank you very much Popeye ;))
With that said I will try to approach this question in the most objective manner possible.

The Tibetians certainly hurt their cause and opened themselves up to legitimate retribution when the killed and looted. I can't say I support that; I don't support violence against civillians of any type. The motive behind this was three-fold: The Tibetians released decades of pent up frustration at being ignored and oppressed by the CCP, they wanted to dissuade further Chinese migration to Tibet (the ultimate Chinese weapon against the Tibetian self-determination movement) and they wanted to cause a major incident that would attract attention and mar the Olympics.

No nation will truly back the Tibetians; China is too powerful. China is not a democratic country, so continual peaceful protest will not have any affect. Armed resistance is foolish and impossible, China is too powerful and more importantly ruthless, and it would result in the Tibetians losing their moral superiority (which is already tenuous, based on the opinions expressed by some in this discussion).

The best Tibet can hope for is some sort of limited autonomy from China, and an end to Chinese efforts to supress Tibetian culture. That is all I hope for.

What hope is there for Tibet? What course of action can they take? China seems to have them at every turn.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
"Never again!"

"Enough!"

No Westerner speaks of the one million Chinese that were massacred in less than a month in Indonesia during the Cold War. Why? Because the US and Australia pushed the Indonesians to do it. Worse than Darfur. Worse than Rwanda. And some people don't understand why some countries don't listen to the West. The Chinese can use the same excuse being used for Tibetan violence. If there's no address, it's going to explode. And Indonesia wasn't the only massacre of Chinese civilians sponsored by the West.

Calm down AssassinsMace, I've done research on Indonesia. The uprising there in the 60s resulted in up to half a million deaths depending on who you believe. From studies by overseas Chinese in South East Asia & I've even seen an archive of an old Indon intelligence report, Chinese there mainly suffered looting of their businesses. Far fewer deaths compared to the natives. The cultural curbs were very real though. It was Western sources which tended to exaggerate the uprising as being anti-Chinese to move Indonesia from the hold of Communist powers in those days.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
his boyhood teacher was a Sergeant in the SS.....

Now that's just silly. It's a low blow and you know it. Like saying Obama is a Muslim. The man was in the SS so he could continue his climbing carrer and go to the Himilayas. The only way to do that in 1930s Germany was to play the Nazi's game and join the SS so they could show of their "Aryan supermen" doing incredible feats of derring-do. The man wasn't a Nazi, he never commited any crimes, I'm pretty sure he never recieved any combat training or anything.
 
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