Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


sequ

Senior Member
Registered Member
Within the scope of the "Pedestal Mounted CİRİT Weapon System Project", which was launched with the aim of providing additional capabilities to the anti-tank divisions and capable of firing UMTAS and CİRİT missiles, the targets determined in the inspection and acceptance firings carried out in Konya/Karapınar were hit successfully.

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These tank destroyers carry longer ranged Cirit and UMTAS missiles (8km) as opposed to the the 4km ranged OMTAS and 5.5 km ranged Kornet-E.

This new tank destroyer will soon be added to the inventory of 210 M113 and ACV-15 TOW tank destroyers and soon to be 344 wheeled and tracked tank destroyers that carry the OMTAS and Kornet-E missiles.

I wonder when the TOW tank destroyers are going to be retired, and how many. During this decade the Turkish army will also receive almost 3000 new armored vehicles, both wheeled and tracked in dozens of configurations (APC, IFV etc). I wonder if they will also include new ATGM tank destroyers fitted with the Kuzgun-TJ or the eventual Spike equivalent made by Roketsan.
 

Philister

Junior Member
Registered Member
The intelligence gathering ship 'TCG Ufuk' has been commissioned.

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Some of the statements made by the President during the ceremony:

  • "I hope that our TCG UFUK Ship, which I think will help our country's security and intelligence activities to be carried out in the most effective way at sea, will be beneficial to our National Intelligence Organization."
  • "We have implemented projects that will make our navy stronger and deterrent for the security of the Blue Homeland. We have achieved the 70% nationality target in Marine Projects."
  • "Our country's first intelligence ship was built under the leadership of STM with the contributions of 194 leading companies in their fields such as Aselsan, Havelsan, İşbir, Anel and Yaltes."
  • "We have exported 180 naval platforms to 25 countries so far. Hopefully, we will receive new good news on this subject in the near future."
  • "We used to import the Vertical Launch System, which is the main weapon group of our frigates, today we have a domestic and national system. Our 6th-7th-8th frigate, which we are bidding with our Istanbul ship, will also have domestic vertical launch system and domestic air defense missiles."
  • "We entered the tender for the 6-7-8 ships of the Istanbul Class. We are breaking new ground by constructing three warships at the same time."
  • "We will strengthen our navy even more in the next two years. We are going to the TF-2000 tender soon."

Thanks to
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How I think the Turkish navy surface combatant fleet will look like in 2030:

2x 8500t TF-2000 destroyer
4x 4100t Gabya class with ESSM
4x 3300t Modernized Barbaros class frigate
4x 3000t I-class frigate
4x 2400t ADA class corvette
8x 2300t Hisar class OPV (based on ADA with FFBNW weapons and sensors)
10x 600-1000t new FAC
9x 500t Kilic class FAC
16x 400t Tuzla class patrol boat
6x 1850t Reis class submarine
8x 1800t Type 209T1/2 modernized

Unspecified amount of STM-500 mini subs, possible STM-1700 sub, indigenous Milden sub and more TF-2000 to enter service before 2030 or shortly after.
Is there a timeline for TF-2000? I would like to know when will we see it
 

sequ

Senior Member
Registered Member
Is there a timeline for TF-2000? I would like to know when will we see it
The design will be finished this year but the tender will start before that. Steel cutting will happen next year or perhaps even this year and it will take IMO anywhere between 5-7 years till commissioning.
The navy wants to build the first ship in their own shipyard first and gain experience before letting the private sector build it.
 

sequ

Senior Member
Registered Member
Within the scope of the "Pedestal Mounted CİRİT Weapon System Project", which was launched with the aim of providing additional capabilities to the anti-tank divisions and capable of firing UMTAS and CİRİT missiles, the targets determined in the inspection and acceptance firings carried out in Konya/Karapınar were hit successfully.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

These tank destroyers carry longer ranged Cirit and UMTAS missiles (8km) as opposed to the the 4km ranged OMTAS and 5.5 km ranged Kornet-E.

This new tank destroyer will soon be added to the inventory of 210 M113 and ACV-15 TOW tank destroyers and soon to be 344 wheeled and tracked tank destroyers that carry the OMTAS and Kornet-E missiles.

I wonder when the TOW tank destroyers are going to be retired, and how many. During this decade the Turkish army will also receive almost 3000 new armored vehicles, both wheeled and tracked in dozens of configurations (APC, IFV etc). I wonder if they will also include new ATGM tank destroyers fitted with the Kuzgun-TJ or the eventual Spike equivalent made by Roketsan.
Apparently, this 'Yalman' turret can also fire the 4km ranged OMTAS and Roketsan is hinting that it can also fire the
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, which is not very surprising to me:

#OMTAS #UMTAS #LUMTAS and #CİRİT missiles together with our #YALMAN Weapon System, which we developed with domestic and national resources! We are increasing the firepower of our Turkish Armed Forces by combining anti-tank and air defense capabilities!

The downside IMO is that this Roketsan solution uses an expensive foreign EO turret (TacFLIR-380 HD) while the OMTAS and KORNET-E launcher currently being produced uses cheaper but lower resolution Aselsan EO sights. It is better to wait for the CATS or the Aselflir-F500C to be adapted for the ground role to take full advantage of the high resolution or HD senors on them that is needed for long range detection, recognition and tracking for the Sungur SAM.
 
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sequ

Senior Member
Registered Member
As a matter of fact, there is a huge market for HD thermal sensors for land- air and naval application in Turkey. Close to a thousand if not more of new EO systems are going to be needed for the hundreds of aircraft, hundreds of specialized vehicles (or perhaps thousands when the Altay gets produced with a new FCS and optics) and dozens of not more than a hundred naval vessels that are doing to be inducted in this decade and beyond 2030.

AFAIK, Aselsan is already developing a next gen targeting pod for fighter aircraft. It is also working on EO systems that fit between the 15 inch EO turrets and mini gimbals. They should also come with upgrades or new iterations fitted with HD thermal sensors for the various systems like the AHTAPOT, PIRI IRST and come up with ground and naval versions of the Aselflir-F500C. I've unfortunately seen a USV with the Yalman turret which uses a foreign EO system.

Aselsan should not waste this huge domestic HD thermal sensor potential. It'll also do them good for the export market, competing against Wescam, FLIR, Hensoldt, Sagem and Elbit for the EO market.
 
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BoraTas

Junior Member
Registered Member
I always thought that abandoning the F-35 for S-400 was a bad deal, especially since Turkey is one of the starting members in the F-35 program.
There are a lot of unknowns in that decision. Some questions:
1- Was it a political decision caused by the US-Turkey relationship? The US support to YPG and FETO were and still are the biggest problems in Turkish-American relations.
2- Was it a tribute paid to Russia over developments in Syria?
3- Was it caused by the involvement of the F-16s in the coup attempt in 2016? Did Erdogan decide that stealth aircraft were a threat to himself?
4- Did the Turkish government and military decide that the US was bluffing? This is unlikely. The US was very vocal about this matter.

There are a lot of unanswered questions to draw a conclusion.
 

Gloire_bb

Senior Member
Registered Member
2- Was it a tribute paid to Russia over developments in Syria?
Why something shall be regarded as tribute when Turkey simply needed a LR SAM system?
Turkish western allies failed to sell a replacement for antiquated HAWKs under any viable conditions, - even after spoiling the Chinese deal. Tribute to the fact that allies failed to provide the necessary system for 2 full decades?
 

sequ

Senior Member
Registered Member
We are beating a dead horse here.

1- Was it a political decision caused by the US-Turkey relationship? The US support to YPG and FETO were and still are the biggest problems in Turkish-American relations.
It was even before that. The whole Syria fiasco exposed the unwillingness of the US to help out Turkey with the Syrian problem. Millions of Syrian fled to Turkey while Turkey asked for US military assistance in the form of a no-fly zone. The reply it got was 'The Syrians have powerful air defenses' LMAO...

2- Was it a tribute paid to Russia over developments in Syria?
Or was it a sincere Turkish need for a LRSAM since Desert Storm and since the Russians have the best LRSAM on paper, combined with the fact that Putin spoke out against the coup even before traditional western friends and allies? It's a no-brainer that Erdogan was willing to reward loyal behavior with such an expensive and controversial deal.

3- Was it caused by the involvement of the F-16s in the coup attempt in 2016? Did Erdogan decide that stealth aircraft were a threat to himself?
Not implausible but very far fetched IMO.

4- Did the Turkish government and military decide that the US was bluffing? This is unlikely. The US was very vocal about this matter.
Probably they were thinking the US was bluffing. We are talking about billions in $ of sales and parts over the course of decades, tying Turkey to the US militarily. If the recent rumors are true that the US and Turkey are seeking a way to get Turkey F-35's then it is a testimony that the US was at fault and Turkey in the right. It only took the US 3 years to figure that out.

Don't forget the missile threat from Iran. The S-400 is capable of intercepting BM with a range of up to 3000km.
In 2007 or so when the Iranians tested the Sejil, Erdogan asked the CoS what the range of Turkish missiles were. The reply he got was 150km (J-600T). Erdogan got mad and look today where Turkey is wrt missile tech. The missile technology gap between Turkey and Iran is closer than ever and with the 1.35m diameter, solidfuel, filament weaved, rocket-booster with flex nozzle MUFA that'll be launched this year or the next, the gap will be even closer.

4 m long, 61 cm diameter rocket booster with flex nozzle:

 
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