The War in the Ukraine

FriedButter

FriedButter

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Registered Member
Abominable said:
If they're talking about Ukraine joining NATO there's a good chance something has been agreed. Ukraine joining NATO if the fighting continued would make no sense.

I think Putin is making a mistake if he thinks taking only 4 territories of Ukraine makes up for Ukraine joining NATO. At the very least Kharkov and Odessa should be taken. The west will turn the Ukraine into an Israel, and it'll forever be a problem. Deal with the problem now and don't leave it for future generations.

Putin also specifically mentioned the people who died in Odessa in his speech today, it would not look good if he then abandons them.
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Off topic note. If that is the case, then we should pay attention to anything in regards to Taiwan closely and meticulously.

Phead128 said:
I never understood pushing for referendums in provinces where you have not established full-spectrum control (i.e. Donestk and Zaporizhzhia provinces). Doesn't sound representative if only half the population on these two provinces get to vote?

Russia should have established full military control over these two provinces before starting a referendum, just like they did in Crimea in 2014 referendum.
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I feel like it probably doesn’t matter for Russia since the results won’t change in either case. Mostly because a lot of pro-Ukrainians would have left the city, town, etc while most of the pro-Russians would have stayed by the time the Russians seized the region.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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Registered Member
sheogorath said:
My impression on the rush and based on previous statements, all of this seems to be manouver around russian laws in order to avoid or reducing the legal requirements and limitations to declare war.

I do find it weird how they want to avoid "breaking" any law when it comes to this mess.
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Russia is, legally and somewhat culturally, a European capitalist democracy. Russia also has a long history of extremely rigid bureaucracy.
 
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BlackWindMnt

Captain
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TongHua said:
Ukraine applies to join NATO. Too late, they should have done that in February 2014 when they ousted Yanukovych.

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Does it even matter I just read through article 5 of nato and Ukraine is already getting what article 5 describe as support when one of the nato members is attacked. Signing up for nato is just formalities just like holding referendums to annex regions.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Atomicfrog said:
The thing for sure, Russian forces never done a real full blown offensive. It look like they are taking their time, lobing artillery when being out of harm. So relaxed in their position caring about anything, they got themselves pantsdown when the Ukrainians changed tactics.

One of the factor of not maintaining the current line is maybe Russia don't want their troops in the no man lands without roof, energy and food supplies for winter. These razed villages in the middle of fields are not places to spent winter. No one will be there in two months, Ukraines troops will pull out of these hell holes too but with their moral way higher than two months ago.
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Well, I think Russia has really underachieved thus far. Their lack of EW and UAV and logistical support is for everyone to see. Also, Ukraine has turned out to be a lot more resistant than most people anticipated. So this war is definitely turning out to be a huge grind for Russia. But offensive operations and taking territory in a stalemate is quite common in the history. Maybe the Ukrainians can break the stalemate, but they will need to do a lot more than what they've done thus far. Taking a couple of towns I've never heard of isn't called breaking the stalemate.
 
T

tank3487

Junior Member
Registered Member
RottenPanzer said:
With current situation developing
I could see a cease fire might come into effect after Lyman
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Doubt it. There is a massive offensive group forming by Russia right now. IMHO there would be offensive around November-December.

sheogorath said:
In just a few months, they undid years of Merkel finessing around the Russian and Ukranian conflict.
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War was inevitable the moment Germany new government had blocked Nord Stream 2 in 2021.
 
baykalov

baykalov

Senior Member
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Ukraine's future NATO membership must be ratified by the parliaments of all its members, and as we know these 30 NATO countries are not united on this issue. I do not see how a quick accession of Ukraine to NATO would happen.

Turkey has not yet ratified the membership of Finland and Sweden.
 
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sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
kokole said:
Ukraine's future NATO membership must be ratified by the parliaments of all its members, and as we know these 30 NATO countries are not united on this issue. I do not see how a quick accession of Ukraine to NATO would happen.

Turkey has not yet ratified the membership of Finland and Sweden.
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Now that you mention, didn't Finland and Sweden sign the exact same piece of paper and nothing has come of it so far?.

On the other hand, Georgia also thought they were defacto members of NATO and we know how that ended up.
 
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