The War in the Ukraine

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes, probably the elements with the most combat experience that Russia had at that time, the militias in Donbass with 8 years fighting against the Ukrainians, the Wagners with combat experience in several conflicts and in many cases better armed than the soldiers of the Russian Army average....

I don't know how you can accept that the majority of Russian casualties are the most experienced men in combat that the Federation had... That by looking for excuses you have become a champion.... The VDV have been destroyed in their first deployments, do not forget
Realistically, you are the one who look for excuses to put anything bad in the Russian side.

If you think the combat experience of a Donbass militia, with the level of available equipment and the combat experience of a Wagner mercenary is equivalent to the training and equipment of the real army what can I say you.

And to say that Wagner was better armed than army soldiers... ? Based in what? Wagner had the oldest artillery and armor that you can find in Russia. Full of the oldest BMP1 and stuff like that
 

Sheleah

Junior Member
Registered Member
If you think the combat experience of a Donbass militia, with the level of available equipment and the combat experience of a Wagner mercenary is equivalent to the training and equipment of the real army what can I say you.

What happens is that in your eagerness to bring an erroneous narrative that Russia has only played pawns and has saved its best chips for later, you make the mistake of assuming that the militiamen and the Donbass and the Wagners are second-class troops, even mediocre.... When the reality is different

The level of personal equipment of a Wagner was much better than an average Russian soldier, and the mercenaries had experience in Syria, Africa at the very least... While the conscripts of the Russian army barely know how to lift a rifle, and with 2 months of training a lot they will learn

Wagner and the Donbass militiamen may not possess the cover systems and artillery capabilities of the Russian armed forces, but that is not the point, furthermore, the Russian army must offer support and cover to all combatants fighting on its side. ... Many of Wagner's disproportionate losses were due to late support and coverage by the Russian armed forces, criticism of which was made public...

Russia lost experienced mercenaries, experienced militiamen, who not only taught the Russian army to mobilize in the Donbass but also trained Russian units... So don't come to me to minimize the casualties of militants and Wagner, as if they are just minor chips. .. If instead of these elements, you put Russians from the army, the result would be the same or worse... Remember that the VDV in some units were massacred, as well as elite units of the Guard.... And don't forget the number of Russian army officers who have died in this conflict, officers with experience in all the wars that Russia has participated in in recent history

Russia, with the exception of Nuclear weapons, has used the best it has, both in systems and resources...
 

iBBz

Junior Member
Registered Member
What happens is that in your eagerness to bring an erroneous narrative that Russia has only played pawns and has saved its best chips for later, you make the mistake of assuming that the militiamen and the Donbass and the Wagners are second-class troops, even mediocre.... When the reality is different

The level of personal equipment of a Wagner was much better than an average Russian soldier, and the mercenaries had experience in Syria, Africa at the very least... While the conscripts of the Russian army barely know how to lift a rifle, and with 2 months of training a lot they will learn

Wagner and the Donbass militiamen may not possess the cover systems and artillery capabilities of the Russian armed forces, but that is not the point, furthermore, the Russian army must offer support and cover to all combatants fighting on its side. ... Many of Wagner's disproportionate losses were due to late support and coverage by the Russian armed forces, criticism of which was made public...

Russia lost experienced mercenaries, experienced militiamen, who not only taught the Russian army to mobilize in the Donbass but also trained Russian units... So don't come to me to minimize the casualties of militants and Wagner, as if they are just minor chips. .. If instead of these elements, you put Russians from the army, the result would be the same or worse... Remember that the VDV in some units were massacred, as well as elite units of the Guard.... And don't forget the number of Russian army officers who have died in this conflict, officers with experience in all the wars that Russia has participated in in recent history

Russia, with the exception of Nuclear weapons, has used the best it has, both in systems and resources...
Do you have evidence to back up these ridiculous claims? Because it sounds like you are right there in the thick of it, so I'm just wondering.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
What happens is that in your eagerness to bring an erroneous narrative that Russia has only played pawns and has saved its best chips for later, you make the mistake of assuming that the militiamen and the Donbass and the Wagners are second-class troops, even mediocre.... When the reality is different

The level of personal equipment of a Wagner was much better than an average Russian soldier, and the mercenaries had experience in Syria, Africa at the very least... While the conscripts of the Russian army barely know how to lift a rifle, and with 2 months of training a lot they will learn

Wagner and the Donbass militiamen may not possess the cover systems and artillery capabilities of the Russian armed forces, but that is not the point, furthermore, the Russian army must offer support and cover to all combatants fighting on its side. ... Many of Wagner's disproportionate losses were due to late support and coverage by the Russian armed forces, criticism of which was made public...

Russia lost experienced mercenaries, experienced militiamen, who not only taught the Russian army to mobilize in the Donbass but also trained Russian units... So don't come to me to minimize the casualties of militants and Wagner, as if they are just minor chips. .. If instead of these elements, you put Russians from the army, the result would be the same or worse... Remember that the VDV in some units were massacred, as well as elite units of the Guard.... And don't forget the number of Russian army officers who have died in this conflict, officers with experience in all the wars that Russia has participated in in recent history

Russia, with the exception of Nuclear weapons, has used the best it has, both in systems and resources...
How well trained the Donbass militias were is hard to say. But it's clear that the militias, convicts and Wagner are the least politically expensive to sacrifice. Normal Russian soldiers dying cause the biggest political costs to the government. So it's absurd to put them all in the same category.

Of course many elite troops of the regular army also died and nobody is trying to make it look like Russia didn't use their best. But the losses from irregular troops are not in the same category as regular soldiers and putting them into the same category is disingenuous. They got the militias "for free" so they're not seen as as valuable. It's better to use ex Ukrainians to fight Ukraine than to use normal Russians, obviously

It's in Russia's interest to sacrifice the militiamen, who will only fight in their own region and have lived decades as Ukrainian citizens, meaning their loyalties might change if they can be convinced by propaganda, and replace them with Russian soldiers.
 

RottenPanzer

Junior Member
Registered Member
The level of personal equipment of a Wagner was much better than an average Russian soldier, and the mercenaries had experience in Syria, Africa at the very least... While the conscripts of the Russian army barely know how to lift a rifle, and with 2 months of training a lot they will learn
Wrong, much of the Wagner equipment they used was cold war era predominantly dominated by T-80s and early models of T-72B3s last time i checked and only a handful of them had T-90s and even those are export version.

And pretty sure much of the Wagner personnels frequently uses Chinese made Kevlar which they bought through online shops.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
One of the hypermarkets in Kharkhiv is being used as a military warehouse or depot. Got struck by a Russian missile, possibly Iskander. Fire is massive. Secondary explosions point to being ammunition, rockets and missiles might be stored within.

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Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
Why is Ukraine counter attacking Vochansk so hard? Is there something valuable?
The number of Russian troops engaged in combat in that Kharkiv vector is small and way more a diversion/testing the water. If they leave them getting a foot hold with that amount of troops, it will probably change to full on incursion. Better to cull them when they are not that many.

Losing Vochansk open the door for Russian troops to cut the sector at the Siverskyi Donets River all the way to Kupyansk with a side protected by a river. It's not something they can let them do.
 
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Sheleah

Junior Member
Registered Member
but how can we know if it is an S300 or S400?

Russian sources are already confirming that it was an S-400... but not everything is bad, according to Russian sources, the crew managed to save themselves, and the defense system managed to shoot down 5 missiles... they probably have no way to defend themselves from a saturation attack, but they are optimistic for the future.

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