The Q-5, J-7, J-8 and older PLAAF aircraft

by78 said:

Two interesting images. What are these concepts?

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Both were designs leading up to J10/j20 that were dropped for various reasons. I seen the model in the second photo, it was a concept. Think J10 with F14 style sweep wings. The idea was discontinued for some obvious reasons.

Remember when I said they looked into what j20 looks like if starting from a J10? That's basically ur first picture.

64 years ago today, China's first jet trainer (Shenyang JJ-1) took to the skies.

by78 said:

64 years ago today, China's first jet trainer (Shenyang JJ-1) took to the skies.

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Nice warplane [and derivatives]and brave pilots, at the time, taking part in the Korean War and shot down many advanced adversaries.

So Scramble.nl lists a fair number of J-7 units as withdrawn from use in 2021. Yet, even when those are discounted, and when the remaining units with J-7 are tallied and checked for some activity on Google Earth (All those bases still seem to be in use)
the remaining tally is this:
9 frontline brigades still use J-7
One additional brigade may still use it, but last GE imagery is from 2020, which is too old to be a proof.
And one training base unit uses J-7G to some extent.
The above list does not include various trainer JJ-7s that are still active.

Now I do believe not all J-7 units are actually populated up to their full strength of 30 or so planes. If they were, that'd be almost 300 J-7 planes left. But even with some units operating fewer planes, it seems plausible that at least 200 J-7 are still in active use.

Of course, it's also plausible that scramble.nl data is out of date. And that even when GE images show some J7 at some bases in 2022, that some of those bases are in fact not active units but more like storage facilities.

Coincidentally, J-8 numbers seem much lower. Scramble.nl lists a single PLANAF unit using them as fighters. And several recon units, both in PLANAF and PLAAF, still use them. So, even including recon variants, it seems likely that fewer than 75 airframes are still active.

Question: Does anyone have any recent data that would contradict the above?

Look at the previous page, the list looks like up to date.

A.Man said:

125 Brigade J-7H (Nanning) 24
(125 Brigade is being refitted J-10C)

97 Brigade J-7E (Chongqing Dazu) 36

63 Brigade J-7H (Mudanjiang) 36
88 Brigade J-7E (Dandong) 36
44 Brigade J-7G (Hohhot) 36 aircraft

27 Brigade J-7L (Beijing Yanqing) 36
52 Brigade J-7G (Wuhan, Hubei) 36

Air Special 93 Regiment Fighter Reconnaissance J-8F (Suzhou) 24
Air Special 46 Regiment Fighter Reconnaissance J-8F (Shenyang) 24

Total:
48 J-8s are in active service
240 J-7s are in active service

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Totoro said:

So Scramble.nl lists a fair number of J-7 units as withdrawn from use in 2021. Yet, even when those are discounted, and when the remaining units with J-7 are tallied and checked for some activity on Google Earth (All those bases still seem to be in use)
the remaining tally is this:
9 frontline brigades still use J-7
One additional brigade may still use it, but last GE imagery is from 2020, which is too old to be a proof.
And one training base unit uses J-7G to some extent.
The above list does not include various trainer JJ-7s that are still active.

Now I do believe not all J-7 units are actually populated up to their full strength of 30 or so planes. If they were, that'd be almost 300 J-7 planes left. But even with some units operating fewer planes, it seems plausible that at least 200 J-7 are still in active use.

Of course, it's also plausible that scramble.nl data is out of date. And that even when GE images show some J7 at some bases in 2022, that some of those bases are in fact not active units but more like storage facilities.

Coincidentally, J-8 numbers seem much lower. Scramble.nl lists a single PLANAF unit using them as fighters. And several recon units, both in PLANAF and PLAAF, still use them. So, even including recon variants, it seems likely that fewer than 75 airframes are still active.

Question: Does anyone have any recent data that would contradict the above?

Click to expand...

Jiang ZeminFanboy said:

Look at the previous page, the list looks like up to date.

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Yes, that is what A. Man wrote.
But he did not provide any sources for it. So, even if those figures are taken at face value of an unverified source, as accurate as Scramble.nl (as Scramble also uses various unverified sources) - then we have two conflicting sources.

For example, A. Man's list mentions J-8F, which is not the recon variant. Scramble claims those have been taken out of service within PLAAF.
A. Man's list claims 7 brigades using J-7. While Scramble's list claims at least 9.

Furthermore, whether all those J-7 units are actually using all 36 of the nominal planes, or whether they've been doing for for the last decade or so - is also highly questionable. Certainly some of those older types, the H, L models - those are some 35 years old by now. Even if they flew just 120 hours per year, they'd most likely fly past their possible airframe hours. As some of my earlier posts suggested, GE imagery of J-7 bases throughout the past decade also doesn't support the notion that 36 was the nominal number of J-7s deployed as active in most J-7 bases.

I certainly don't want to belittle anyone's work, but I would appreciate actual sources or links to work/study methodology. Just writing numbers on the screen is not enough. I have huge issue with Scramble's figures as well, of course. They don't really disclose their sources. So I just wish there were more sources cited in general, when it comes to inventory numbers.

Totoro said:

So Scramble.nl lists a fair number of J-7 units as withdrawn from use in 2021. Yet, even when those are discounted, and when the remaining units with J-7 are tallied and checked for some activity on Google Earth (All those bases still seem to be in use)
the remaining tally is this:
9 frontline brigades still use J-7
One additional brigade may still use it, but last GE imagery is from 2020, which is too old to be a proof.
And one training base unit uses J-7G to some extent.
The above list does not include various trainer JJ-7s that are still active.

Now I do believe not all J-7 units are actually populated up to their full strength of 30 or so planes. If they were, that'd be almost 300 J-7 planes left. But even with some units operating fewer planes, it seems plausible that at least 200 J-7 are still in active use.

Of course, it's also plausible that scramble.nl data is out of date. And that even when GE images show some J7 at some bases in 2022, that some of those bases are in fact not active units but more like storage facilities.

Coincidentally, J-8 numbers seem much lower. Scramble.nl lists a single PLANAF unit using them as fighters. And several recon units, both in PLANAF and PLAAF, still use them. So, even including recon variants, it seems likely that fewer than 75 airframes are still active.

Question: Does anyone have any recent data that would contradict the above?

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This is the number from Chinese wiki


From my experience, Chinese wiki is credible enough for reference.

Even you need to take it with grain of salt of course

An old image of J-8s that was lost to time.

JJ-5 resting in peace in the Gobi Desert, Gansu.