The Q-5, J-7, J-8 and older PLAAF aircraft

From SinoDefense:


A Chinese licensed copy of the Soviet MiG-17 (NATO codename: Fresco), the J-5 is China’s first indigenously built jet fighter aircraft. A total of 767 examples have been built by Shenyang Aircraft Industry Company (SAC) between 1956 and 1959. The aircraft was completely retired from active service with the PLAAF and PLANAF in the 1980s, while its fighter-trainer variant JJ-5 is still flying as a primary jet trainer.


Following the successful development of the J-5 fighter, a Chinese copy of the Soviet MiG-17 Fresco, the newly founded Chengdu Aircraft Factory began to develop the two-seat variant JJ-5 to replace the PLAAF’s Soviet-made MiG-15UTI Midget fighter-trainer for jet fighter pilot training. The maiden flight of the JJ-5 took place on 8 May 1966, and the aircraft entered service with the PLAAF in December 1966. A total of 974 examples were built before the production stopped in 1983. The aircraft is operated by the PLA Air Force (PLAAF), PLA Naval Air Force (PLANAF), as well as some third-world countries.


From Air to Air Combat web page:

The MiG-17 was license-built in both China and Poland. In the early 1950s, the PLAAF obtained a number of Soviet-built MiG-17 Fresco-A day fighters, designated "J-4" or, when passed on to other countries, "F-4". The Chinese obtained plans for the MiG-17F Fresco-C day fighter in 1955, along with two completed pattern aircraft, 15 knockdown kits, and parts for ten aircraft. The first Chinese-built MiG-17F, produced by the Shenyang factory, performed its initial flight on 19 July 1956 with test pilot Wu Keming at the controls. The MiG-17F was known as the "J-5" in Chinese service, or "F-5" when it was exported. One was actually trialed as a torpedo bomber, but not surprisingly the concept never made it into formal service.

The Chinese then went on to produce the MiG-17PF interceptor as the "J-5A (F-5A)". Plans were obtained in 1961, but the country was in turmoil in the early 1960s and the first Chinese-built MiG-17PF, produced at the Chengdu factory, didn't fly until 1964, when the type was basically obsolete. It was given the designation of "J-5A (F-5A)". A total of 767 J-5s and J-5As were built to end of production in 1969.

Somewhat more practically, the Chinese built a two-seat trainer version of the MiG-17, designated the "JJ-5 (FT-5)". It was something of a hybrid, featuring the cockpit system of the MiG-15UTI / JJ-2, the non-afterburning VK-1A engine of the MiG-17 Fresco-A, and the larger airbrakes of the MiG-17F. It also had a protruding upper intake lip resembling that of the MiG-17PF, but the JJ-5 wasn't fitted with radar. All the nose armament was deleted, with the aircraft carrying a single NR-23 cannon in a belly pack. First flight was in 1968, with the type built at the Chengdu factory.

About 1,061 JJ-5s were built to end of production in 1986, with the type exported to a number of countries. Some sources have referred to it as a "MiG-17UTI", but formally speaking there never was an aircraft with that designation.

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Possible areas of correction:

* On our Sinodefense web site, the J-5 UAV page claimes that 767 J-5 and J-5A were built between 1956 and 1959. I think it's very unlikely that they'd make 767 aircraft in 3-4 years?? The air to air combat page claims the production period was from 1956 to 1969, with J-5A production running from ~1964 to 1969. I think that number is prolly more realistic.

* On the Sinodefense web page for JJ-5, it says a total of 974 were built between 1966 to 1983. On air to air combat, it claims 1,061 up until 1986.

I'm not sure whos numbers are correct, but will do some more research into this.

I was wrong in the first part. It should end 1969 not 1959. What happened is that the J-5 production was stopped in May 1959 temporary and then resumed in 1960.

As to the second part, I got the figure of 974 and 1983 from a Chinese website: . Like you said I need more research too

The original purpose of J-8 no longer applies to today's situations. Today's PLAAF no longer faces threats of supersonic bombers from two superpowers. J-8II is superior to J-8 in every aspect, but it still retain it's predecessor's characteristics: big, fast, high-flying, but not very manuverable, especially compared with newer fighers like Su-27. Even the older J-7 is more agile. As far as I know, after extensive upgrades the J-8II is approaching early 3rd generation fighters like F-14 in term of overall capabilities. I have read a Chinese article that talks about the J-8 program. It says that the J-8II faces a uncertain future. In some ways the J-8II is a low cost alternative to more expensive fighter aircrafts like J-10 and J-11. It is being considered a multi-role fighter instead of a interceptor, and is being used by both PLANAF and PLAAF due to its ground strike and maritime strike capabilities. But the plane is showing its age. It may not stand a chance against 3rd generation fighers, especially in dog fights.

5 hardpoints seems a bit low for ground strike missions. I am not sure if I would use it for such a mission either. It was designed for high altitude. Unless we see a major upgrade, I don't think it should stop playing HawkerHurricane with J-7s.

the aircraft is hopelessly outdated.it need replacement.

Might as well give the J-8II's mission to a specialized variant of the Super-10 (if such a project does exist) or the J-XX. Saves a lot of money by using a common airframe.

I'm trying to find the other J-8II threads and merge them into this one. In the meantime, these pics show a J-8F under construction. Looks like a labor intensive plane with all the riveting needed.

And more.

sumdud said:

5 hardpoints seems a bit low for ground strike missions. I am not sure if I would use it for such a mission either. It was designed for high altitude. Unless we see a major upgrade, I don't think it should stop playing HawkerHurricane with J-7s.

Click to expand...

So far as I know, the J8II has 7 hard points, 6 under wings and 1 under fuselage. I think you missed the two hard points for small missiles (I think AAM) right in front of its main landing gears.

Well the current role of the J-8II is to provide low cost support to more higher end aircraft (J-10 and J-11) and to lower end aircraft (J-7), essentially, during the 1990s, the goal was to give the J-8II true BVRAAM capabilities, something the J-7 can never completely achieve. You can sort of equip a MiG-21 with BVRAAM with the correct upgrades like India and the MiG-21bis Bison but the payload would be limited and the actually range of any BVRAAM, particularly targetting and tracking abilities would always be suspect, especially given the ceiling requirements to properly deploy a BVRAAM. In essence, the main strength of the J-8II and especially of the J-8F, is its size, wich allows it to carry the Type 1492 PD radar and can carry a substantial amount of anti air and ground ordinance. The purpose of the J-8II upgrades is to provide cost effective fire support to other aircraft, the J-7 in particular, which will probably be in service for a number of more years. While the J-7G is a marvellous little dog fighter (I've read Pakistani reports of its turning abilities rivaling that of the F-16) it is a light, low to the ground sort of fighter and would be at a serious disadvantage to any sort of heavier, BVRAAM equipped modern fighter before the J-7 could ever get close enough to unload its short range missiles which is why the J-8II is necessary. The other otherhand, the J-11B and J-10 still only make up a small portion of the PLAAF, the new J-8F fighters and the J-8H upgrades are there to fill the gap and while not the most agile aircraft in the PLAAF can fill the multi-role niche effectively enough and can be seen as having the capabilities of older, late 80's multi-role aircraft such as the early MiG-29 and Mirage 2000-5