PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread


Tam

Major
Registered Member
My impression is that the refits aren't expensive.

It becomes expensive when you start putting in high performance and long range radars, which does not appear to be the case.

There was a Type-54 cost breakdown estimate, where the Type-54 weapons and electronics came to $185M, and the rest of the ship was $162M

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So if they keep the hull, and then just fit in Frigate level weapons and electronics, it should still result in a cost effective overhaul for a Frigate.

I also think so, considering all these components have also been volume produced which reduces their costs further.

I would think the main concern is that if all the upgrades would fit within the ship's electrical budget, and how they would affect the ship's displacement, balance and handling. For example the Shtil arm launcher and its 24 missile magazine vs. the 16 missile VLS + 24 missile HHQ-10. I think the HHQ-10 was added to help offset the weight difference, and for that reason I want to see the rear clearly if HHQ-10s were added too, even if just to balance off, or some other item was used to compensate for the weight like decoys.

If YJ-12 is 2500kg according to Wiki and Moskit is 4,500kg according to Wiki, would have required 14 YJ-12s to compensate the weight of 8 Moskits. I don't think you can put 7 YJ-12s on each side of the ship, more likely at the max, six missiles, three rows of two, for a total of 12 YJ-12. That still leaves you with some negative weight surplus.

One completely new item the original Sovremenny doesn't have is the equivalent of the Type 364 radar, which is now fitted on top of a second mast behind the funnel. I don't think this radar unit would weigh much however.
 

Bhurki

Junior Member
Registered Member
I also think so, considering all these components have also been volume produced which reduces their costs further.

I would think the main concern is that if all the upgrades would fit within the ship's electrical budget, and how they would affect the ship's displacement, balance and handling. For example the Shtil arm launcher and its 24 missile magazine vs. the 16 missile VLS + 24 missile HHQ-10. I think the HHQ-10 was added to help offset the weight difference, and for that reason I want to see the rear clearly if HHQ-10s were added too, even if just to balance off, or some other item was used to compensate for the weight like decoys.

If YJ-12 is 2500kg according to Wiki and Moskit is 4,500kg according to Wiki, would have required 14 YJ-12s to compensate the weight of 8 Moskits. I don't think you can put 7 YJ-12s on each side of the ship, more likely at the max, six missiles, three rows of two, for a total of 12 YJ-12. That still leaves you with some negative weight surplus.

One completely new item the original Sovremenny doesn't have is the equivalent of the Type 364 radar, which is now fitted on top of a second mast behind the funnel. I don't think this radar unit would weigh much however.
Any decrease in weight can easily be countered by adding permanent solid ballast. Its the increase in weight thats normally hard to get with.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
Any decrease in weight can easily be countered by adding permanent solid ballast. Its the increase in weight thats normally hard to get with.
Yes. You would have to open up the hull to add that, when much of the refit work is done in this dock, and then there is also the question of space, as these ships are known to be tight. I don't think they should be adding solid ballast until every new part has been added, and its also likely the electrical system of the ship has been beefed up to handle the Chinese equipment, like the back end along with the extra radar (Type 364). So that collectively might add some weight. The rest they have to figure out through ship trials using temporary ballast.
 

gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
can these Sovs work with Chinese carrier groups ?
Perhaps in the outer perimeter to guard against other ships. The internal perimeter is quite likely to be Type 052Ds. Or Type 055s when those become available I think. Because of their superior air defensive capabilities. I suspect the Sovs will instead be used to escort and support the LPDs though.

The Sovs are multi-function ships so they could even operate by themselves if necessary.
 
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Tam

Major
Registered Member
can these Sovs work with Chinese carrier groups ?
My first thought about this is about the fuel it would use, since the tanker in the group has to carry it. If it shares the same fuel as the Liaoning and 002, by all means, assuming 002 is still steam turbine. If the carrier is GT powered like 003, along with the Type 901 AOE, and the rest of the destroyers are GT powered. then the Sovs would be the odd guy out, since you have to carry a different fuel for that ship that is not the same as the rest. That makes it inconvenient.
 

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