PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread


gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think the main advantage these warships will have, now that Chinese have their own more modern cruiser designs, is just the AK-130 guns for shore bombardment. Other than that I think this is a really expensive refit which likely has poor economics similar to the Type 051B's or even worse. But the refits do not take up a lot of valuable dry dock space. So perhaps that is another reason why they pushed for something like this.

Back when the Chinese's most advanced designs still used antiquated short range missiles with ancient electronics these ships provided a substantial leap in anti-shipping capability. Now not that much anymore. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese will upgrade them though. Especially when we consider that the design of this ship is pretty tight as it is. If you change one system you easily bump into another. The Chinese ship designs in comparison are lot more modular.
 
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Tam

Major
Registered Member
I think the main advantage these warships will have, now that Chinese have their own more modern cruiser designs, is just the AK-130 guns for shore bombardment. Other than that I think this is a really expensive refit which likely has poor economics similar to the Type 051B's or even worse. But the refits do not take up a lot of valuable dry dock space. So perhaps that is another reason why they pushed for something like this.

Back when the Chinese's most advanced designs still used antiquated short range missiles with ancient electronics these ships provided a substantial leap in anti-shipping capability. Now not that much anymore. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese will upgrade them though. Especially when we consider that the design of this ship is pretty tight as it is. If you change one system you easily bump into another. The Chinese ship designs in comparison are lot more modular.

If the Sovremenny switched to YJ-12 that alone marks a major boost in antiship capability. The Moskit-E only has 120km range, though it does fly an all low flight profile. I don't know but its possible China also has the Moskit MVE version which has the 240km range but with a higher more vulnerable flight profile. Given that the YJ-12 is much lighter than the Moskit, its possible the refit ship can carry more missiles.

Having YJ-12 alone, like the 051B MLU having it, gives the 956E destroyers superior antiship capabilities over the 054A and even the 052C which all have subsonic missiles. In the future, the 054A and the 052C need to be MLU'd to the YJ-12.

For close ranged defenses, these ships packs it. Not only has the two dual cannon AK-130s, but has four AK-630 or H/PJ-13 along with a 24 missile launcher for HQ-10. The combined output of the two AK-130 means a firing rate of 160 to 180 rounds a minute of 130mm shells, and that's not something just for shore bombardment but for aerial defense.
 
If the Sovremenny switched to YJ-12 that alone marks a major boost in antiship capability. The Moskit-E only has 120km range, though it does fly an all low flight profile. I don't know but its possible China also has the Moskit MVE version which has the 240km range but with a higher more vulnerable flight profile. Given that the YJ-12 is much lighter than the Moskit, its possible the refit ship can carry more missiles.

Having YJ-12 alone, like the 051B MLU having it, gives the 956E destroyers superior antiship capabilities over the 054A and even the 052C which all have subsonic missiles. In the future, the 054A and the 052C need to be MLU'd to the YJ-12.

For close ranged defenses, these ships packs it. Not only has the two dual cannon AK-130s, but has four AK-630 or H/PJ-13 along with a 24 missile launcher for HQ-10. The combined output of the two AK-130 means a firing rate of 160 to 180 rounds a minute of 130mm shells, and that's not something just for shore bombardment but for aerial defense.
I didn't know that 051B had replaced 16 YJ-83 to YJ-12 ? .. are you sure about that? how many YJ-12?
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
I didn't know that 051B had replaced 16 YJ-83 to YJ-12 ? .. are you sure about that? how many YJ-12?
Did you miss that? Its been pasted all over a while. In photos, close ups even, right down to the metal plaque in the canisters that ID the missile. Like tourist pictures on the ship during a recent open house visit while on Shenzhen. The ship carries four YJ-12 canisters in its normal state, but each canister can be stacked with a second if the situation calls for it. That is what someone belonging to the ship said when asked about it. Just go and check the thread about the ship.
 
Did you miss that? Its been pasted all over a while. In photos, close ups even, right down to the metal plaque in the canisters that ID the missile. Like tourist pictures on the ship during a recent open house visit while on Shenzhen. The ship carries four YJ-12 canisters in its normal state, but each canister can be stacked with a second if the situation calls for it. That is what someone belonging to the ship said when asked about it. Just go and check the thread about the ship.
ohhh yeahh, I remember now ... sorry about that :( .. yes I saw the photos a while ago

So basically 16 YJ-83 were replaced with potentially 4x 4 YJ-12

sorry for a bit off topic
 
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snake65

Junior Member
VIP Professional
136 sits low on the water while 137 sits high without the weight of her equipment.

136 does not have her ASM canisters but note the racks are already there.

I get the impression there are three racks all abreast there.


View attachment 50825
Is there another HHQ-10 aft? Looks like some device under green taurp there
 

AndrewS

Captain
Registered Member
I think the main advantage these warships will have, now that Chinese have their own more modern cruiser designs, is just the AK-130 guns for shore bombardment. Other than that I think this is a really expensive refit which likely has poor economics similar to the Type 051B's or even worse. But the refits do not take up a lot of valuable dry dock space. So perhaps that is another reason why they pushed for something like this.

Back when the Chinese's most advanced designs still used antiquated short range missiles with ancient electronics these ships provided a substantial leap in anti-shipping capability. Now not that much anymore. It will be interesting to see how the Chinese will upgrade them though. Especially when we consider that the design of this ship is pretty tight as it is. If you change one system you easily bump into another. The Chinese ship designs in comparison are lot more modular.
My impression is that the refits aren't expensive.

It becomes expensive when you start putting in high performance and long range radars, which does not appear to be the case.

There was a Type-54 cost breakdown estimate, where the Type-54 weapons and electronics came to $185M, and the rest of the ship was $162M

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So if they keep the hull, and then just fit in Frigate level weapons and electronics, it should still result in a cost effective overhaul for a Frigate.
 

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