I agree. But the credible threat must allways be there, just in case...
PLAN Naval Helicopter & ASW Capability II
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
I agree. But the credible threat must allways be there, just in case...
Iron Man was making a distinction between the early and conventional 056 and the later ASW version of 056A. It appears that you are not aware of the difference. The first 056A was commissioned in November 2014. There are currently at least 15 of them that have been launched/commissioned.
I'm aware. But what I wanted to say is that I'm not really clear what's the role of common Type 056? Surface patrol? There's Coast Guard for that. Surface combat- I don't see against who.
So, why they didn't made them all for ASW?
plawolf
Lieutenant General
LHDs are only worth having for the helicopters they can carry. Since the PLAN currently lacks a decent medium weight helicopter, there is less value in having an LHD just yet.
However, it will be a very different situation when the PLAN have a domestic naval medium weight helicopter they are happy with.
LPDs are useful but LHDs are big targets? They are pretty the same in terms of general size and defensive capabilities. Either you can defend both, or you can defend neither.
If anything, LHDs would be far more useful in a Taiwan scenario.
The PLA and PLAN have Zubrs and plenty of other amphibious landers that can reach Taiwan from ports on the mainland coast. Having an LPD transform some LCACs a little closer to Taiwan is of marginal value in the grand scheme of things.
The attack and transport helicopter fleets LHDs could deploy would be far more useful than a handful of LCACs. Depending on the design, a PLAN LHD may well be able to deploy LCACs and/or amphibious tanks and IFVs as well, so it may not even be a trade off at all.
What would they need LPDs in the SCS for? Pretty much every garrison on the non-Chinese built islands could be easily mopped up by the marines/special forces squads deployed as standard on PLAN FFG classes and above for ship security, after a good bombardment from a PLAN naval task force.
The ASW helicopter wing an LHD could carry would, together with 056s, plug one of the few weak points the PLAN have in the SCS, which is ASW against world class SSNs.
That's just copy pasting USN without really thinking about China's unique strengths and needs.
In both a Taiwan and SCS conflict scenario, any PLAN LHD would enjoy strong air and surface support and defenses from land based fighters (from the mainland and the newly built SCS island bases), PLAN naval warships and even land based SAM and AShM support.
The only real weak point would be ASW, which is what the masses of 056s are tailor made to plug. The only thing the 056s are lacking are ASW helicopters, which is where the LHDs come in.
Throw a PLAN carrier or two into the mix, and you will have the most comprehensive and capable full spetrium defensive force west of Pearl Harbour.
LPD is huge logistic asset in this case. Somewhat large&vulnerable for comfort, but nevertheless extremely useful.
Taiwan itself is procuring one, for a reason.
All LHD functions in strait can be performed from mainland and isles: it's not especially far. Perhaps most importantly, mainland reliably won't get sunk.
MwRYum
Major
Yes but that'd also mean a predictable approach vector, a respectable amphibious strike group would pose a different level of threat to, say, Taiwan.
But apart from getting way off topic here, the fact that PLA as a whole sorely lacking suitable helicopters in sufficient quantities means such scenario would either not materialise until after 2020, or with great effort via forming a combined helicopter taskgroup, sourcing helicopter assets from every military region.
Back to topic (I think, I try, I hope...), how soon we'd see a PLAN LHD that could also function as the central nexus for anti-sub surface group, would very much depend on the availability of suitable docks, as any of such would have to assign the next 2 years at least to it. Since we still don't have any solid news as to if they're building one now, the best bet is still in the queue.
Funny I thought about that too. Most people would have assumed so far that an invasion would naturally be launched from the west coast of TW, for obvious reasons. But with a carrier group or two, plus an amphibious strike group or two, it's also possible to launch the invasion from the east coast. At least, it makes the plan unpredictable and put the defense side from concentrating its forces in one or two directions.
With the assets (LHD, LPD, Z-20, LCAC) that PLAN is developing, this will become feasible in 10 - 15 years.
Z9c are pretty much engineered around their ASW mission configuration, so it'd be more cost efficient to leave them perform that duty or export them to other countries.
Z-9 can be replaced when there are same figures of other, new helos. Right now, we're at zero such helos. Z18 asw will seemingly serve on carriers and other future flattops, possibly on 055 and perhaps in some figures serve from ground bases. Early Ka29 may need replacement too.
So far there's no evidence of naval variant of any medium class helo. Z20 itself hasn't entered service in its basic form. In my opinion, that suggest 5-10 years until a new medium helo in ASW guise starts production. Once it does start, it will take some years until production spools up.
As far as i can guesstimate, it took z9c around a dozen years in production to get to current 30-ish or 40ish airframes for PLAN. Some notational new medium asw helo may be produced faster but by how much? 60 airframes within 10 years? That would already be a huge jump in production rate. z9c production needs to go on, too, as there are curerntly no suitable helos for all the 056 and 054a.
But z9c can't just be replaced, there are new ships being built, to use helicopters, whereas previous ships didn't use helicopters. So total needs also rise.
by 2020 or so we will have fleet of ships needing 80 or so helicopters (that's not counting the patrol variant of 056). Right now the number of asw helicopters is probably in the 40 to 50 region, including 10 or so ka-29 asw variants.
If by 2025 the new helicopter gets produced and z9 production ceases, we may be looking at
70ish z9c/d.
so maybe sometime in the 2035-2040 period we may see the new helicopter serve in larger numbers than z9c. but it won't happen earlier than that. And that's really the best case scenario. Also possible is that the "more new medium helos than old z9/ka29 helos" will happen in 2040-2045 period.
But indeed it will happen some day.
i specifically lined "in strait".
LHD is by no means optimal for this task...
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